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Thread: Kingdom level strategy age 61

  1. #61
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    By the numbers, Halfling is the best attacker in the game. So what is the property of this magical "core" that weakens halfers?

    Only Orc seems to compete to my mind, due to the +gains... so I guess you could use a few halfer warrior "breakers" in an orc core... but bleh, that sci malus is brutal, I'd hate having to work around it. Plus, more halfers means you don't need dedicated "breaker" type attackers - you can always just send extra elites situationally instead.
    UD is just a compromise between orc and halfer - power right in the middle, no +gains, randomly gets a massive buff when plague procs. (Er, well, gives the next guys a big buff.) No thief potential though, so you need fewer attackers to make room for more T/M or A/Ts or something.
    Last edited by Ethan; 16-03-2014 at 03:33.
    it's vs. its is ambiguous - from now on I'm attempting to use the proper possessive it's, and the contraction 'tis. (Its will just be the plural.)

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  2. #62
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    Your numbers essentially negate all Halfer advantages into offense, leaving a province with no particular bonuses and an inherent economic penalty. One of your primary racial bonuses evaporates within a day of war or hostile; the other requires a great deal of money to utilize unless setting up the Halfling as a thief before war. Since your entire kingdom is Halfers and a few Faeries, you will likely be starved for money even with Merchant. Due to -BR, it's remarkably easy to fireball and tornado a Halfling core into uselessness, then nightstrike shells to remove their spec offense. (or, just nightmare and nightstrike from the outset of war). Without a plan to ramp up thief power they're screwed.

  3. #63
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    I dub Ethan the marketing manager for Halflings....

    Obscure invisible maths sure does prove their strength.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blindman View Post
    I dub Ethan the marketing manager for Halflings....

    Obscure invisible maths sure does prove their strength.
    Please engage in the conversation, and not add empty criticism. I would like this to be an academic atmosphere.

    I've had some success using halfer/war heroes integrated as part of the core attackers before. Town watch and war spoils can be pretty effective at mitigating overpop damage, and their elites are pretty cheap when they needed to be beefed back up. Just treated their bonuses as a way to support them until the timing was right to use them more offensively. I wouldn't view them as a breaker province though, as you have to devote more pop away from what you could be putting into thieves, so we ran them with orcs.
    Last edited by natebane; 16-03-2014 at 06:48.

  5. #65
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    I think the part of halfer that never gets mentioned is their ability to maintain offense while in war via credits.

    When I was sitting a halfer war earlier this age i would get credits back equal to in the ball park of 60-70% of my losses. This let me keep my offense going, somewhat like how an undead works.

    The sucky part this age was eating a deep chain with your army out, you could not use the elites to do anything to dragon so you can do nothing but watch them abandon until your army gets home leaving you with a bunch of ospecs and a diminished elite core. Most of these races with a offense/defense elite (elf and human attackers primarly) revolve around the fact that you can turtle back onto your elites when chained and maintain offense and defense with 1 unit counting towards your pop. Halfer almost felt like a chained orc, except without the bonus to gains.

    Writing this out it strikes me that halfer really functions similar to an UD, without the plague (that can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your views of plague).

    I think what hurts halfers is that the way the game is right now magic feels a lot stronger than thievery. An elf A/m can NM a chain target or fireball to pop control. A halfer A/t can do what? Gather intel, steal from other attackers? They can NS chain targets but I would imagine you will end up losing thieves to the point where that gets harder to be effective at and retraining thieves for an attacker is an expense most kd would probably want to avoid.

  6. #66
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    Halfer with specs is in a far, far worse position than chained orc even. More like the worst position out of any chained race by far, now that Faery got extra offense on their elite to play with.

  7. #67
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    I'm reading this thread, not posting in it, but I just wanted to say this is a great thread, keep it going with ideas.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cry0 View Post
    I think the part of halfer that never gets mentioned is their ability to maintain offense while in war via credits.

    When I was sitting a halfer war earlier this age i would get credits back equal to in the ball park of 60-70% of my losses. This let me keep my offense going, somewhat like how an undead works.

    The sucky part this age was eating a deep chain with your army out, you could not use the elites to do anything to dragon so you can do nothing but watch them abandon until your army gets home leaving you with a bunch of ospecs and a diminished elite core. Most of these races with a offense/defense elite (elf and human attackers primarly) revolve around the fact that you can turtle back onto your elites when chained and maintain offense and defense with 1 unit counting towards your pop. Halfer almost felt like a chained orc, except without the bonus to gains.

    Writing this out it strikes me that halfer really functions similar to an UD, without the plague (that can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your views of plague).

    I think what hurts halfers is that the way the game is right now magic feels a lot stronger than thievery. An elf A/m can NM a chain target or fireball to pop control. A halfer A/t can do what? Gather intel, steal from other attackers? They can NS chain targets but I would imagine you will end up losing thieves to the point where that gets harder to be effective at and retraining thieves for an attacker is an expense most kd would probably want to avoid.
    Youre trying to compare a heavy attacker halfers opping capability to a turtle A/m elfs? A halfer can turtle and op TM's too.... An A/m elf is just a fat shell after 48 hours with no chance at being anything more, you can feed a halfer to destroy any prov it faces, elf just sits and lets it happen.
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by noobium View Post
    Halfer with specs is in a far, far worse position than chained orc even. More like the worst position out of any chained race by far, now that Faery got extra offense on their elite to play with.
    Yup, I am in agreement with you.

    You watch your 4/4 elites abandon while your army is out.

    Your army comes in, you get land and a bunch of 5/0 specs, by this time your 4/4 elites are probably more or less gone. Now you are sitting on an army of 5/0 specs to try to stay in the game with and no modifiers that really help you get back in the game. The offense/defense elites are nice when you attack with them and you are able to have your army come back and consist of those so you can keep the majority home to defend your chained province while you land grab back up. Doesn't work for halfer as well - and that is the orc compare because orc are in the same boat with 7/1 elites, essentially no defensive value; difference is orcs have 7/1 elites vs 5/0 specs and orcs gain 25% more on each hit =). Birthrate thing starts to suck there also because you probably aren't kidnapping peasants back with your abandoned thievery core either.

    That goes into why A/m is nice, wizards are awesome on chained provinces =).

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cry0 View Post
    Yup, I am in agreement with you.

    You watch your 4/4 elites abandon while your army is out.

    Your army comes in, you get land and a bunch of 5/0 specs, by this time your 4/4 elites are probably more or less gone. Now you are sitting on an army of 5/0 specs to try to stay in the game with and no modifiers that really help you get back in the game. The offense/defense elites are nice when you attack with them and you are able to have your army come back and consist of those so you can keep the majority home to defend your chained province while you land grab back up. Doesn't work for halfer as well - and that is the orc compare because orc are in the same boat with 7/1 elites, essentially no defensive value; difference is orcs have 7/1 elites vs 5/0 specs and orcs gain 25% more on each hit =). Birthrate thing starts to suck there also because you probably aren't kidnapping peasants back with your abandoned thievery core either.

    That goes into why A/m is nice, wizards are awesome on chained provinces =).
    Orc is no better than pure off spec halfer on land def imo. Orc is forced to anon to protect his ever shrinking elite count that cant be replenished granting it only +6% gains. Halfer has 2 other great luxuries. It wont lose troops to oversending cause specs home cant be hit. It cannot be ambushed either. You are going to quad tap for a good while while an orcs offence drops off at a quicker rate(Due to either oversending heavily, or being hit with leets home.)
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  11. #71
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    If I were to run pure halfers for an attacking core, I would go with tactician. A strategy I've always wanted to exploit was against some kds crappy intel management. You get to save thieves on your intel gathering so you have more to use offensively, and save some building space. How annoying would it be to do continuous intel sweeps on a halfer a/t core with clear sight and watchtowers. You can force oversending if all they can gather are SoT and you have armies out. This would be a just for funzies build though, like persain's all ud merchants :p

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by crease View Post
    Orc is no better than pure off spec halfer on land def imo. Orc is forced to anon to protect his ever shrinking elite count that cant be replenished granting it only +6% gains. Halfer has 2 other great luxuries. It wont lose troops to oversending cause specs home cant be hit. It cannot be ambushed either. You are going to quad tap for a good while while an orcs offence drops off at a quicker rate(Due to either oversending heavily, or being hit with leets home.)
    halfer on land defense with no elites or thieves + nightstriked specs = halfer with no army. qed. 5/0 specs have their uses but they are not elites and shouldn't be treated as such.

    also 7 is a substantially larger number than 5 and ambushing defenseless provinces usually isn't relevant. there is also no rule preventing orc or anyone else from training offspecs if their offense runs low in a long war (not that a chained province on land defense should be training all that much). also oversending is pretty stupid if an attacker has valid targets to attack otherwise, which only require vaguely competent intel gathering to find. if there are no other valid targets to trad/conquest/bounce, then did you really need the extra offense? i dunno, seems like grasping at straws.

    but really, sustaining attackers long-term is more about traits and elite strength and less to do with min/maxing opa/dpa as if the prov were still pumped. every other race - even the frail ones like faeries - have something which is going to be useful for a chained province. halfers have basically no benefits post-chain, or at least their benefits are very difficult to utilize or justify; their army is also poor, and the personalities halfer would prefer are similarly bad post-chain. while a skillful halfer can last for a while, they are still obligated to be more defensive than the average attacker, which makes it difficult to use them as a core race.
    Last edited by noobium; 17-03-2014 at 04:38.

  13. #73
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    Ok guys, so I was thinking of the following for a 22 province war KD:

    2 Elf/Mystic (MS/Greed)
    2 Faery/Mystic (fireballers/NSers/kidnappers/ToGers late war --> if elves are taken down they will share some MS duties)
    2 Halfling/Merchant (ToG/NS/Kidnapping)
    1 Halfling/Rogue (Prop on Elves) --> has to be bigger than the rest to be save.

    Attackers:
    8 UD/Tactician
    7 UD/Warrior

  14. #74
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    dunno why you'd run one ha/rogue and nothing else, but in any event fa/rogue > ha/rogue without mass-feeding.

  15. #75
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    latest build im pondering after re-reading this thread:

    5 elf mystics-- MS bots with minor thief
    12 undead warrior- Pure attackers
    8 faery war hero- attacker thieves

    with nw distribution in that order, using the faeries nw range as the buffer for chain stalling, not sure if cleric would be better but feel like they need to be able to ignore sapphires for ops. Extra ome from warrior is meh, but would like to utilize the extra gen to throw spare massacres at chains which the faeries get to benefit using their damage bonuses more effectively. If it wasn't for that, then I would most likely go tacts for the UD, although could do 50/50 but prefer all same.

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