+ hours

[RawStuff]

Anyone know the general formula for + hours gains?
it seems to be something around; 1+ (+hours / #of hours to attack at 0+hours). with a certain setback that amplify as you add +hours. And a bigger setback if you use the - hours.

anyway just wanted to know if someone had the formula as i was having fun checking if dwarf tact could beat/come close to an orc in gains with same attack time (with big RAX and BE on dwarf)

[American Badass]

-2 hours: Attack time 10.96 days, for 75.3 % gains
-1 hour: Attack time 11.96 days, for 88.4 % gains
0 hours: Attack time 12.96 days, for 100.0 % gains
+1 hour: Attack time 13.96 days, for 106.2 % gains
+2 hours: Attack time 14.96 days, for 110.8 % gains
+3 hours: Attack time 15.96 days, for 113.9 % gains
+4 hours: Attack time 16.96 days, for 115.4 % gains

It would involve maths from that to work out. I cba now but yeah someone might have it.

[RawStuff]

2 hours: Attack time 7.23 days, for 65.3 % gains
-1 hour: Attack time 8.23 days, for 83.7 % gains
0 hours: Attack time 9.23 days, for 100.0 % gains
+1 hour: Attack time 10.23 days, for 108.7 % gains
+2 hours: Attack time 11.23 days, for 115.2 % gains
+3 hours: Attack time 12.23 days, for 119.5 % gains
+4 hours: Attack time 13.23 days, for 121.7 % gains

[RawStuff]

an easy formula seems to be ( for the + extra hours) : (A/B) / (1+0.25C)
A: numbers of + hours (1,2,3 or 4)
B: your normal attack time ( at 0 extra hours)
C: the numbers of + hours (1,2,3 or 4)

[Bishop]

You cant use +/- hours to give you more acres than not using them, not unless they allow you to make a hit you wouldn't otherwise.

[Anatak1989]

One thing I've always kinda wondered... As an avian, if I attack with -2 hours, I get approximately 6 hours per attack in war (or, 4 uniques per day). If I attack with 0 hours, I can get 8 hours, and get 3 uniques per day. Are you saying that it is still more efficient to use the 0 hour modifier in this case?

[crease]

look at the above avian. He is getting 65% gains for -2 hours, if you had 8 hour base instead of 9 that would be sub 60% gains.

However, assuming 65% gains you are getting 2.6 attacks worth of acres only, but you get 4 attacks worth of troop losses. Yeah, can we please stop this now?

[RawStuff]

i dont understand bishop. i understand you cant get over the max gains (20%). but if you are let say getting 10% gains, the +hours would still bring you closer to the 20% right? Same if you are getting max gains but the opponent has GSs, you would be able to counter some of the GSs?

[skoyl12]

rawstuff your formula seems wrong. In the explanation A=C which would make the formula A/[B*(1+0.25A)] and i cant produce the numbers you post.

I think that +- gains are hardcoded to the numbers american badass has post and are independent of modified attack time.
Now about the extra gains i'm sure those are applied to the final land calculation.
If the gains formula was multiplicative as stated in the guide the behavior of extra gains would be normal but i guess there is an additive part in the gains formula so +-hours get higher weight than intended.
Personally i use +2hours when i hit out of nw range

note: i dont have any hard data to support what i say so take them with a grain of salt

[RawStuff]

True that A = C :P

still seems to work ok for me:

1hour:(1/9.23)/(1+0.25x1) = 0.0866 = 0.087
4hours:(4/9.23)/(1+0.25x4) = 0.2167 = 0.217
+2 and +3 dont give the exact number witch mean its clearly not the right / linear fct.

they also seems completly dependent to your +0 attack time, factoring everything that can lower that normal attack time.
as for the added vs multiplied gained, since Utopia is mostly about multiply stuff, i would think it follow the norm here too until anyone find out otherwise.

[natebane]

Does P=NP?

[noobium]

b = base attack time
a = hour mod
c = gains multiplier (fixed for each setting)

gainsmod = ((b+a)/b - 1) * c
add 1 to this to get the effective gains that will show on throne room (obviously)

for a=-2, c=5/3 (?)
for a=-1, c=3/2 (?)
for a=0, c=1
for a=1, c=4/5
for a=2, c=7/10
for a=3, c=3/5 (?)
for a=4, c=1/2

for a=-1 and a=-2 i presume defensive troop losses are also reduced by the same factor, or perhaps something different. i didn't actually test, just compared attack times in war room.

this seems consistent with what i had with avian (didn't test anything then, but a 7 hour base attack time should get about +28% gains from +4 hours)

[Bishop]

One thing I've always kinda wondered... As an avian, if I attack with -2 hours, I get approximately 6 hours per attack in war (or, 4 uniques per day). If I attack with 0 hours, I can get 8 hours, and get 3 uniques per day. Are you saying that it is still more efficient to use the 0 hour modifier in this case?

Yes, +0 hours would result in more acres. Minus hours is deliberate designed like this. Its goal is to allow you to use to to make a hit you wouldn't otherwise be available for, not to allow you to hit faster for more gains.

The mod is based on how much you are modifying your attack, with an additional nerf that scales up, i.e if you have 8 hour attacks and use -2 reducing your attack time by 25% you will get more than a 25% reduction in gains, honor, kills etc.

[Bukharistan]

Just a small question. After 24 hours in war you will have 12,6 base attack time. Let's say you run Avian/Tactician with 30% rax (75% BE) which is 5.6 hours attack time. Let's say all your attacks are with -2 hours. Would that mean you could do 6-7 uniques/day?

[RawStuff]

Just a small question. After 24 hours in war you will have 12,6 base attack time. Let's say you run Avian/Tactician with 30% rax (75% BE) which is 5.6 hours attack time. Let's say all your attacks are with -2 hours. Would that mean you could do 6-7 uniques/day?

yup around that numbers. But your gains would sux with -2 hours at that lvl, you also would gain crazy amounts of troop losses+ no substainability in the building department. But ya you would have 3.6 attack time for a few attacks(then your Rax wouldnt be 30% anymore with the gains)