rate the races

[crease]

faes are half mystic/rogue humans are tact for the land saving

edit: i dont like sage even on human.

edit2: we werent attempting to whore, so tact was an easy choice on humans, with foresight mystic would have been better, but again didnt expect to be big haha

edit3: i wouldnt run anything close to this setup next age, the metashift in war attacks wouldnt make this work. Its fine for now thou, we get to see how top kds pick it apart and learn from the experience \o/

[noobium]

Old Human is Gnome and new Human is more like old old Human (which is grand)

Old Human had ToG. ToG is stupid good, and no viable attacker except Old Human had ToG at the time. I forget how Gnome worked out, wasn't around most of those ages. I remember that they were generally kinda **** and their turtle focus didn't really work with mechanics at the time. Old Human got a big boost due to the changes in exploration mechanics (and really, when exploration changed, many kingdoms should have radically adapted their straegy, ghetto and top alike. this is especially felt in ghettos that still try to war 10 times an age, it doesn't really work now due to base mechanics changes and metagame changes.)

Old Old Human was the ****, especially the age where they had those epic 8/3 elites.

So new Halfer... why is it so bad? Well, it isn't that bad. It's just horribly misplayed... so many have this notion that their halfers are good because they fight scrubs that don't know how to counter them. A lot of times, even in good kingdoms, it's not so worthwhile to kill the halfers as long as their thieves can't amount to any serious damage. Kill their support, and the Halfer is just a crappy static t/m or a crappy bloated attacker. Killing the Halfer outright is often lucrative if it can be done properly, but oftentimes there are better targets to work on.

Used properly Halflings can be a solid top-tier contender, but almost every kingdom in the game can't use them fully to that extent, and the few who could pick better setups.

[noobium]

faes are half mystic/rogue humans are tact for the land saving

edit: i dont like sage even on human.

edit2: we werent attempting to whore, so tact was an easy choice on humans, with foresight mystic would have been better, but again didnt expect to be big haha

edit3: i wouldnt run anything close to this setup next age, the metashift in war attacks wouldnt make this work. Its fine for now thou, we get to see how top kds pick it apart and learn from the experience \o/

thanks for the clarification.

edit1: Sage is kind of poopy without the ability to compete against top tier kingdoms, as eventually someone will stroll along and learn attack that science away. However, a player that can work with building rotations can usually fit schools into their build and rotate them out once war is declared. The only Sage I really like this age is Faery, but if running a Faery Sage they might as well pair with Human Sages and vice versa. For most warring kingdoms Sage is basically the Elf bonus if a Sage is protecting and investing their science properly, and perhaps better. Anything other that Human or Faery as Sage can't compete in bpa and has a gaping weakness to Amnesia (barring perhaps Elf/Sage, and Elf/Sage economy is ass).

edit2: It seems like all of utopia has chosen to suck this age except BB and AMA. Big relative to the server but imo 40-50k acres is about where a decent 25 prov kingdom should be at this point. The lack of acres floating around and the small gaps between kingdoms mean there is little room to play with, and it's really a race to see who can **** whom first.

[Lestat]

Human/Sage buying books. God lord.

[noobium]

Speaking of personalities...

I'm surprised I don't see more dwarf and human clerics. Maybe it is just at the level I'm playing, but I would think Cleric is a better fit for those races than anything else. I would definitely want Cleric if I use expensive elites to defend situationally, probably more than I want Tactician attack time.

I wonder, when did war hero suddenly become popular? A few ages ago most people ran from WH and would swear up and down it sucked like no other, but then BB uses WH and suddenly many top kingdoms follow the trend. I guess I can't argue with success but it still seems awfully weak.

Warrior - underrated or just about right? It's pretty poopy now but the pentatap is so much fun to play with.

[madi]

still cant get over the fact that i heard earlier in this chat that orcs/undeads have higher econ in long wars then humans and can sustain there military better..lol...

[Snp]

my rates starting from worst

1.half
2.av
3.elf
4.human
5.feary
6.orc
7.dwarf
8.undead

[noobium]

my rates starting for worst:

8th: Halfling
7th: Avian
6th: Dwarf
5th: Undead
4th: Orc
3rd: Elf
2nd: Faery
1st: Human

Although every race is useful and has their uses in combination with others, and the way the game is set up now a true rainbow race setup is actually quite viable given a proper pick of personalities and building a global strategy that works with so many moving parts. Explanations:

Halfling: No surprise that I would rank them dead last, but without a ton of support Halflings are basically impossible to use against an opponent who is competent and prepared for them. Either the Halflings are killed outright, or their supporting provinces are killed and the Halfer is left an impotent shell. Possibly bumps up a few ranks for those kingdoms that can feed the Halfers, but given how much support they need to work I have to wonder why I didn't just slot something else there instead. Unless you come into war prepared to mass-train thieves on halfers, and have a really strong coordinated effort to take down otherwise untouchable provinces with thief ops, they're ****.

Avian: Very hard race to use effectively, though I would be far more likely to pick an Avian over a Halfling in my dream setup. Depending on situation Avians can bump all the way up to 4th-5th, knocking down Dwarf, Undead, and Orc in the process. They're the only dedicated attacker I would probably combine with Merchant personality, which is a definite bonus. It still remains that Avians have to do a lot to make up for their power disparity and they are difficult to use without a really solid plan for them.

Dwarf: As a solo province Dwarf is really nice to experiment with. If only the game really allowed solo provinces to experiment without being fed on mercilessly. Other than that, their freebuilding is a potentially great bonus for warring kingdoms that is difficult to utilize without being able to time rebuilds. A synchronized Dwarf rebuild would go a long way to push towards certain extremes midwar, leaving far fewer gaps in building configuration than other races would have and with better BE to boot. Unfortunately their nw-efficiency is so horrible that it actually becomes a point against them, and their power for that nw is not as great as some other options. They have a really nice utility spell though, for kingdoms that don't want to run faeries...

Undead: Can't steal and can't hold on to any econ during war. Their primary bonuses are solid enough to carry most kingdoms, but they're incredibly boring to play and predictable as hell. Really effective as attacking specialists, but it takes some sick planning to make that kind of province really effective.

Orc: All-around the most effective "easy" attacker once the price of their Ogres is accounted for. Having one of the slightest economic penalties sucks, but with all the books they can raid through learn attack and the things they can massacre it might not matter all that much. RM is a really great spell to have too, and free draft costs is really useful for turning those peasants orc can save into something more useful. Ambush is a problem, but there are many ways to get around ambush with the right planning. The other problems is that unlike the other attacker picks, Orcs don't get bonuses that translate to buildings nor can they ignore building types freely like avian or undead, so build space is incredibly tight. An orc that can pick a spot to be a petty thief has so much potential, and many times the orc can manage that in a long war.

Elf: Magic is so big for winning wars, and wpa bonuses are so rare. The other stuff Elf has is just icing on that one thing that is really essential. If not for their **** peacetime economy they would be tops, but a kingdom can build Humans and Faeries to support the Elf on that. Unlike Halfling, Elf actually can expect to hold on to an economy worth a **** in war, and in a long war the difference is so telling.

Faery: Top top tier at just about everything they would want to do. The only fault they have is that they are pathetic as a core attacker, but for a solid t/m and economy workhorse there is nothing better. The one sore spot they really have is to a race that gets **** on by everything and has potentially the worst overall economy of all races. (At least Undeads can pay for their elites and generally keep doing their thing for a long time...). Well built kingdoms can build their attackers to take them down pretty hard, too. Now that Faeries have an elite that can actually send out, they've got every angle they need to fight and grow, and they have the really good econ and t/m bonuses.

Human: ToG. So much potential OPA for a race that can turtle behind their elites. Better income and science too? Even when they had the -10% population hit, they were quite strong due to how great ToG is. It is really hard to use a core of entirely Humans, but that is where having a team of solid attacker provinces is helpful. Having the best game for acquiring books of science doesn't hurt either - only Avian arguably does better, and they have to wait until the server has enough science to take.

If I had a dream setup... probably take the top 4 races I mentioned and put them together in a sufficient ratio for the task involved. Growth, war, ghetto, it doesn't matter. Then again, I also hypothesized a setup with a strong focus on 3 of the bottom 4 races I mentioned that might be pretty effective. All of the races have their place where they can really shine, even Halflings. Race balance is pretty good now, but some races are pretty wretched and one race is so overrated and usually winds up being a ghetto cancer.

[madi]

all can b effective just depends on setup and roles.... but as a solo province i think elf is worst race as solo province.. , (they have there place though)

[Bukharistan]

They should just remove ToG from the game again. Give humans +40% income instead. And give Faeries MS without Mystic.

[madi]

They should just remove ToG from the game again. Give humans +40% income instead. And give Faeries MS without Mystic.

humans would just beast then... yes tog great spell and a human/feary/ or merchant spell but id trade tog as a human for +40%income coupled with science boost any day..

[StratOcastle]

all can b effective just depends on setup and roles.... but as a solo province i think elf is worst race as solo province.. , (they have there place though)

Yep. I've always seen the elf mystic particularly like a howitzer. It needs a small support team and an ammo carrier, lol.

[noobium]

all can b effective just depends on setup and roles.... but as a solo province i think elf is worst race as solo province.. , (they have there place though)

elf as a solo province (province playing entirely for themselves with no significant coordination) is pretty unplayable.
elf as an isolated province (say someone who picks Elf/Mystic regardless of what else is in setup) is usually effective enough, even with poor coordination. it's a lot less effective than elf/mystic played as part of a wider unit, but for a province that does its thing without needing a great deal of support, Elf is pretty good.

halflings as ghetto cows "work" (as much as ghetto cows work at all)
halfling as an isolated province regardless of other setup is absolutely horrible, and that has been my experience every single time with ghetto halflings. ghetto halfling is almost universally a cancer played by nubly people. the only exceptions i can think of are the aforementioned ghetto cows.

with the exception of Avians, all the endurance races can work with minimal support and integrate well into any kingdom, while the momentum races generally favor working with superior numbers and by picking one or two points to emphasize in the setup (attacking for orc/ud, econ+attack for human, thievery for halfer). although momentum races in the minority can work, they're a lot harder to integrate if you have for instance:

2 halfers (too easy to isolate and too few in number to utilize their thief advantage effectively)
2 humans (too easy to isolate)
small groups of orc/undead (too easy to isolate, can't really turtle with orc/ud, and difficult to execute deep chains when attackers start getting seperated by large nw gulfs)

Whereas 2 elves, 2 faeries, or a small group of dwarf/avian probably has an easier time integrating into any setup and being effective. avians are the hardest to integrate but they have a lot of advantages in playing big and small over the momentum attackers. dwarves are really effective at swapping roles due to their bonus set, so they can be hitters, econ horses, or t/m capable. Elf and Faery of course have the best set of defensive bonuses and spellbooks that can integrate into most kingdoms without a hitch, and both are also the most likely Mystic picks.

The same is true (to a lesser extent) for solitary provinces that had no rhyme or reason to their pick. Usually a ghetto Faery winds up being a cancer to their kingdom because of nub plays. I often make the mistake of assuming that a solitary player in a ghetto will be a rational actor towards some kind of goal the ghetto has for itself, which skews my ratings somewhat.

[khronosschoty]

They should just remove ToG from the game again. Give humans +40% income instead. And give Faeries MS without Mystic.

Bad idea; TOG is better for the game.

[noobium]

imo Merchant was better with +30% income (which is free) than ToG (which costs runes+mana and isn't always available, but is roughly a +50% income mod when all mana can be converted to tog and runes are not an issue), but i can understand switching it around with the buff to Human. it used to be that human and fae merchant were pretty great picks due to the synergy of tog and the income buff.

buffing human/faery and making ToG unique to Merchants (and FoK unique to sages while we're at it) would be an interesting angle.