A Tale Of Two Kingdoms (and two ages)

[Proteus]

Did a quick search in one of my computers, can check other one when I have time:

(15:34:14) 02(Nick_mi) my kd is best whoring kd atm

(20:42:26) 02(Nick_mi) I've built the best kd, while restoring hoh, and now giving you players

Just wondering what makes your kd best at whoring or simply the best? Crowns? Chart placement? WW record? Roster...in all of those categories there are several kds that are better...so what is it?

You were asked to leave leadership. By me. It was my kingdoms. Yes I asked you to help lead it, but quit acting like you built it. Who recruited you? Who recruited most of the players? Who recruited goodz? Who recruited Zauper? Who recruited brado?

WTF does recruiting someone make? It doesn't make you good. People who actively LEAD their kds and come up with the winning strategies that beat other kds in war/charts are the ones who get the credit. Chatting to people on irc and saying "yo, can you come play in my kd" doesn't mean much. Deana did all of the recruiting in Sanc, why is it that dorje gets so much more credit for its success (because he did all the strat, duh).

Also not to mention in your recruiting efforts you benefitted from the Abs name (as people want to play in the best alliance rather some un-established ghetto), you benefited from the mercy merger where you picked up good players/leaders, and most importantly your leaders benefitted from the top strategists in Abs alliance, protection and relations with some of the best kds in the game (rather than being their farm), and sim access. Quit acting like you made some miracle happen. It is 1000% harder to do what Elit and Flogger have done, built kds OUTSIDE of ABS and outside of major alliances and then beating multiple Abs kds 1v1 in a single age AND crowning. When have you done that? Oh wait, you haven't.

The only reason we didn't crown is because elit spent 6 weeks retal warring us in spite to stop us from crowning(which he successfully did).

You didn't crown because you had the weakest kd in the group out of HOH, Sanc, and Rage with the weakest leadership who was constantly asking others for advice. You were also weakest kd in war. Goodz actually admitted that in this thread, would you like to use search function or just flip through the pages?

The only reason you were even in range of crown because you took massive free acres from AMA because you DOUBLE HOSTILED THEM.

FYI you got retal warred for 6 weeks because you DOUBLED Elit. What did you expect, free acres and a CF?

and I have a double crown

Join the long list, many of us playing that left over from circle of former top kd players have those, more than one. What matter is were you the one LEADING your kd, making the strategy, running the wars when you won it? The answer is no. Did you win it in a highly competitive era where there are more than 3 good kds? The answer is No. But guess what, others here have done just that while LEADING their kd as MONARCH, including PS....you may want to take a seat.

As far as PS goes. I'm kinda drunk so I'm going to be as real as I can

You shouldn't drink at work.

[Nick_mi]

1: You seem to think the only reason we got to the top is because we got a CF from you. Instead, the reality is, we took what we had, which was a CF and used it to our best advangtage. Woe is us for doing the smart play giving the options we had. We're so bad for doing that and it's the only reason we won, despite your master saying ama us and bb are the best 3 kds in the game. Clearly the only reason we did so well was because of the CF.

2:See here's the thing. We gave you what you wanted( a war with pyro and an 8 day cf after war ended, like you asked for originally) 3 days before out ability to notice you even happened. So your point is kind of moot. Also, if BB wins, are you going to say they don't deserve it because they got a "free" CF from you? also note, if you say they've "earned it through skill and power" yet earlier in this thread your master has clearly said we are one of the three powerhouses.

3: Uh, we both agreed to a CF pre-age, particulearly after we gave you acres to stop lameplay from "supposed" BB allies who were razing you eoa. Heaven forbid we push our advantage to eventually give you what you asked for in the first place only to have you go silent in communication then dealbreak us.

4:So pyro was a top5 kd when you warred them, but not when we warred them. Neat.

5: Remember when I was going to have you take over my kd instead of proteus? Man, how many crowns have you gotten since then? Oh less than us? K just checking.

6: Topsy is every bit as good as you are/were when you took over rage. You may disagree but you're wrong. The fact that you **** on him so hard is obnoxious to say the least.

7: It's simple, we played this age with no expectations. We would try for crown if possible, and if not we planned on warring. Bishop mehuling us and pyo declaring a lost war that slowed us down and let you get the advante is how the cards were laid. It became clear you would be ruthless and cuthroat unlike us(who gave you the deal you wanted originally when diplo started last age, no strings attached) so we went warring. To say we had no intentions of trying to crown from the beginning of the age would be a lie, but to say that was our only goal from the start is also a lie. We got bishoped and had a bad start and you got a good jump on us and were able to powerplay us much more abusivly than you QQ about us doing. Bummer. We're having a fun age regardless, and will do what we do, which for the record, isn't a blindside dealbreaking because qq powerplay qq.

8: Here's my issue with "doubling elit" he knew we were coming. He didn't attempt to make a CF with sanc. Then he ran a cow with 300 million gc and no thieves when eowcf ended with sanc and they robbed him. Then elit inniated actually hostile by waving sanc. He had many options, in fact goodz even offered to do a reset on notice, acres exchanged, and gold lost with ama before we warred, but elit wouldn't have nay of it. Did we eventually wave AMA and "double hostile them"? I guess, but at the end of the day elit had numerous advantage-able ways to play around it, but he didn't. He forced our hand hoping we wouldn't wave by trying to run via sanc. For those who think 300 million gc stolen was a big deal, either A: train thieves when you don't CF someone you just warred, B: in the first 48 hours of conflict both sides FGed well over 500 million gc of each others stocks not including what was robbed, so you tell me how important that 300 gc was worth waving over besides trying to run from us.

[Band of Horses]

*Grabs popcorn to watch these two juggernauts of forum warring go at it*

*Forgets that popcorn gives me heartburn*

[Proteus]

1: You seem to think the only reason we got to the top is because we got a CF from you. Instead, the reality is, we took what we had, which was a CF and used it to our best advangtage. Woe is us for doing the smart play giving the options we had. We're so bad for doing that and it's the only reason we won, despite your master saying ama us and bb are the best 3 kds in the game. Clearly the only reason we did so well was because of the CF.

Every age you fought AMA or BB without having a CF to them you lost to both kingdoms, yet both kingdoms did just fine without having a CF with your kd and crowned. What explains that?

2:See here's the thing. We gave you what you wanted( a war with pyro and an 8 day cf after war ended, like you asked for originally) 3 days before out ability to notice you even happened. So your point is kind of moot. Also, if BB wins, are you going to say they don't deserve it because they got a "free" CF from you? also note, if you say they've "earned it through skill and power" yet earlier in this thread your master has clearly said we are one of the three powerhouses.

Giving us the option to fight pyro without the ability to B2B is BS considering how all it does it put you in a situation to setup for a farm war, hardly the same as being offered cfs by elit to have a fair fight vs. BB and without any risk of getting B2B with both kds. You should read what elit said more closely, you are one of the best 3 kds left by default, everyone else quit. He also said you weren't on the same plane as AMA/BB. If BB wins they deserve it and flogger has crowned multiple times before in various kds vs. very skilled opponents. You guys havent, you crowned once and in an age where you got freebie cfs.

3: Uh, we both agreed to a CF pre-age, particulearly after we gave you acres to stop lameplay from "supposed" BB allies who were razing you eoa. Heaven forbid we push our advantage to eventually give you what you asked for in the first place only to have you go silent in communication then dealbreak us.

You got cf for free several ages in a row, courtesy dictates you give a free extension. However, you want to take but at the first chance you get to try and crown you forsake relations for 1-shot opportunity. You pumped all age while we b2b warred all age yet you were still too insecure to let us war pyro and prepare to fight you after.

4:So pyro was a top5 kd when you warred them, but not when we warred them. Neat.

You knew of Pyros loc pre-age and were gunning for them and trained up differently from typical whoring kd OOP, beating someone in fair 1v1 is not the same as when you have access to information you normally would not have. What happened when you got land dropped with superior stats and pyro schooled you guys?

5: Remember when I was going to have you take over my kd instead of proteus? Man, how many crowns have you gotten since then? Oh less than us? K just checking.

How can I take over your KD instead of myself? I do remember you asking if I wanted to run Havoc, but I chose to stay in Rage...unlike you I'm loyal to my kd and dont just hop kds/turn players like you out of desperation to crown. The difference between you and I is when I crown, I also lead, I don't just come along for the ride. I don't give a rats ass about crowning when I don't make the decisions, it's just riding off the talent of someone else. Since your offer, I crowned several times and had a much better WW record against top kds rather than losing to them and landdropping.

6: Topsy is every bit as good as you are/were when you took over rage. You may disagree but you're wrong. The fact that you **** on him so hard is obnoxious to say the least.

If you say so, everyone in your kd is just as good as if not better than I was because they are your butt buddiess...if that was the case why did I run a kingdom as monarch and the main leader and not as part of some 5+ council membership. When it comes to the best of the best like ASF, Elit, etc....I don't really belong in that conversation with those names. Same way topsy does not belong in a conversation with people like myself who run their own kds as the main leader and do the strat, run wars, and handle 90% of kd tasks rather than sitting on a council. I used to help lead a kd with 4 or so people in Pbs, I used to be on council in sanc, I used to 3-4 way monarch funshow, it was not the same as running Rage, the former was a lot easier and less time consuming and there was less accountability. You can say what you want, I still remember topsy leading BB with dan when flogger went MIA and those were the nubs that exited EOW without drafting/training when they had no cf. Pro move right there.

7: It's simple, we played this age with no expectations. We would try for crown if possible, and if not we planned on warring. Bishop mehuling us and pyo declaring a lost war that slowed us down and let you get the advante is how the cards were laid. It became clear you would be ruthless and cuthroat unlike us(who gave you the deal you wanted originally when diplo started last age, no strings attached) so we went warring. To say we had no intentions of trying to crown from the beginning of the age would be a lie, but to say that was our only goal from the start is also a lie. We got bishoped and had a bad start and you got a good jump on us and were able to powerplay us much more abusivly than you QQ about us doing. Bummer. We're having a fun age regardless, and will do what we do, which for the record, isn't a blindside dealbreaking because qq powerplay qq.

Last age we couldn't get cf with RPP alliance until Y5 or so and were blocked and had to B2B war their various kds. Did we QQ about it or make excuses, no we just beat them and ended up in T3. Last age you guys were ruthless in your taxation of kds for CF and how you ruined relations with Elit after he gave you all those free cfs to fight bb in a fair war and not vulture you after. If we were so ruthless wouldn't we have vultured you after all your fights with BB or fight you right before and have BB vulture you? How were we so ruthless this age? BY not giving you a CF. I beg to differ, no one is obligated to give you a cf. I remember the age Pulse+trollfags crowned, I refused to give flogger a cf after getting position over them and they did not chart well that age. There were ages where people wouldnt want to CF Rage. We did not QQ about it, we played through it but the difference is WE STILL ENDED T3 AND WON VS GOOD KDS, YOU DID NOT.

8: Here's my issue with "doubling elit" he knew we were coming. He didn't attempt to make a CF with sanc. Then he ran a cow with 300 million gc and no thieves when eowcf ended with sanc and they robbed him. Then elit inniated actually hostile by waving sanc. He had many options, in fact goodz even offered to do a reset on notice, acres exchanged, and gold lost with ama before we warred, but elit wouldn't have nay of it. Did we eventually wave AMA and "double hostile them"? I guess, but at the end of the day elit had numerous advantage-able ways to play around it, but he didn't. He forced our hand hoping we wouldn't wave by trying to run via sanc. For those who think 300 million gc stolen was a big deal, either A: train thieves when you don't CF someone you just warred, B: in the first 48 hours of conflict both sides FGed well over 500 million gc of each others stocks not including what was robbed, so you tell me how important that 300 gc was worth waving over besides trying to run from us.

My issue with this is regardless of this post, you and Sanc initially had plans to bait AMA into a 2v1 and just straight up double them or incite them which was discussed in Abs council. Yes, I was present in those talks and did not speak against it as you can point out yet I wasn't the one who did it either. You guys have your own conscience and run your own kds, no one ordered you to do what you did and you shouldn't be surprised Elit reacted the way he did, its quite rational. You still failed to address the fact you were as big as you were that age due to FREE ACRES from 2v1 when all of AMA's gold was gone and their cows could not train properly. Also you had weakest kd out of Sanc, Rage, Hoh in terms of leadership experience, war prowess, you name it.

[goodz]

its exciting that the utopia forums are more competitive then the game!

#livinginthepast

[Elit]

So much bla bla bla bla from Nick_mi and Maximouse.

You give your best and failed epic this age. Going to be same next age.

8: Here's my issue with "doubling elit" he knew we were coming.

My issue is you had 0 chances for win over us. For this You (Sanctuary+Havoc) Decide to double hostile us. Your KD was pure farm for us if sanctuary didn't interfere. You stole crown from us with double hostile. Did you got GB for it? Maybe we should GB you next time when you have chances for crown. Wonder if you can get chances next 100 ages? :P

[John Snowstorm]

thanks guys, thread surpassed all expectations.

[PhoenixScorpion]

For the record, I don't know what you're talking about, nor do I care. I was talking about the cr vs bb thread where you said you'd post logs, I called you out on it and you said "you didn't have time" but here you're waging novel-esque forum wars after the thread was conveniently closed.

As far as PS goes. I'm kinda drunk so I'm going to be as real as I can

You were asked to leave leadership. By me. It was my kingdoms. Yes I asked you to help lead it, but quit acting like you built it. Who recruited you? Who recruited most of the players? Who recruited goodz? Who recruited Zauper? Who recruited brado?

I asked you to lead MY kingdom. And you did a good job at first. I'm not saying you did not put in the effort, you did. You brought callien, alina, titefuzz, and many other players. You were a big player in my kingdom. I was ianctive when the merge happened, and you took care of that. I let you do it without consultation. I put the kdi n your hands. But then you went ianctive, procy steped up and man moded a two week war, and I thought you were burnt out. Did I not give you a fair shot? Probably not, but at the end of the day, I was cut throat. I wanted a crown, I've turned over players so much that literally I'm the only one left since our time together. I was constantly improving the kingdom. When you werne't good enough(in my eyes) I decided goodz was worth the shot, and for what it's worth, we did very well. The only reason we didn't crown is because elit spent 6 weeks retal warring us in spite to stop us from crowning(which he succesfully did).

At the end of the day PS. You may have got snubbed a bit, but you're a complete dick about it and you spin facts. I don't think you do it maliciously, I truely think you believe your version of the story is right. But at the end of the day, it was never your kingdom. It could have been, instead you weren't good enough for me, so I went to goodz, who had to retire due to marriage and then I got someone who was good enough in zauper. Now it's zaupers kd. It's not mine anymore, he does everything, he took what I built and did what I couldn't, what I was hoping you could do but didn't. At the end of the day, I now play in zaupers kd, and I have a double crown, so while I wish things could have gone better between us. I'm happy about my decision.

That being said, what you said to Benjamin is unforgivable and you will always be a scumbag in my book because of that. You have many flaws, and I never held them personally, but after your spout with Benjamin, you can go **** yourself buddy.

Please Nick do you really want me to post your logs? You never asked me to leave leadership, but to give over Monarchy to goodz. I have actually posted your logs the last time you lied, but then again I cant say I expect you to tell the truth most of time.

Who's KD was it? Migz. At least when I joined, not "yours", from that leadership went to me. MiKeR was actually one who recruited me, you just knew me and was the person in KD who like me wanted to form a serious KD. Nothing else. I recruited most of the players after I joined Nick, would you like me to provide logs from Caillean, Ben, MiKeR, etc saying how you did nothing and didnt even deserve to be in leadership? I wouldnt be bragging about goodz, Zauper didnt play in KD when I was there, and neither did brado. How about talk about something you did when we actually shared a KD.

At least you finally admit you are a cutthroat who will do anything to win at all costs like sell out your friends, break your promises and word, and act two-faced. Nick you have turned over players not only by choice, players like me and others have left because they do not like you or the merc fashion in which you play with no loyalty, ethics, or class. I wonder how it must feel to play in a KD where all you are is something to be used for a fictious achievement. I could have swore this is a social game, and that your KD mates and friends you don't betray, treat like dirt, and backstab. But hey thats just me.

My version of the story Nick? Like I said I have logs, which you will then lie and say that you said in a different context and blah, blah, ad infinum. Funny you say it wasn't my KD, when I had complete control over merge and everything else. You are a joke. You say how you were inactive, yet I wasn't good enough, just shows what I said before about how some inactive so called leader and "owner" as people laugh at you about now, had the nerve to talk about what I was doing when I did all the day to day work. Also I stepped back from leadership after merge, because of the fact I have been through mergers before and you must give it time to stabilize before pushing and forcing leadership or structure. Which you learned the hard way when the entire KD quit. Combined with fact it was EOA, that is only time I was ever away. Not like after everything I did that should have even been an issue.

Basically you hit the nail on head, you knew I had experience and achieved. When I led the KD I had offers from Pulse/Trollfags/BB to merge, then Mercy, hmm Im sure that was becuase of you Nick and not me. I guess was just a big coincidence I happened to be leading the KD. ROTFLMAO. You used me to jump start your KD, navigate and get into Absalom, and do the work until you could find someone else who you could play your BS with. Im suprised Zauper puts up with it, like when you was still claiming ownership of a Kd while doing nothing. KD-building is not about assembling mercs, or even the most "skilled" roster. Maybe if you had crowned besides a gifted one you would know that. Most of the times I have crowned it was NOT with what you and Anri like to refer to as your epic rooster. It was with a unified, commited, and loyal group of friends who cared for each other regardless of a game. Also you begged me to stay Nick I have those logs too, I left and have never wanted to return so it was you who was not good enough sorry. But hey living in your own version of reality must be nice.

You also glaringly fail to say goods was good enough, so must have been worth all the lying and backstabbiing you did. Nick funny you think you have done much of anything in the KD. You were the butt of most jokes during my time there and Im sure you still are. You are just someone who likes to brag and talk a lot but has never done anything worthy of respect. That is probably why the only place you have it is in your KD. Nick you have 1 crown, one which was gifted to you again by something I STARTED. Kudos. LMAO. Since you like to brag about crowns, I have outcrowned you by 600% Nick (none of mine gifted), 400% of this is when I LED KD, not bragging about someone else work. I am happy with my decision too, because with all the abusing, lame BS, and everything else you have done since I left I would have to say I made the right decision. Let you allies get deal broken much Nick?

Nick, Benjamin started it. I can't help you play with fire you get burned. Boo hoo, Im over what he said to me and what he said was far worse and first. Don't you have some alcohol to go drink or something? I am sure you are tired of eating Jenny Craig dinners fapping to pictures of me. You have many flaws, and I think they are hilarious. But after what you did backstabbing me being a cutthroat liar, I wish you more of the same which is your life. I don't think it gets much worse. Peace, love, and hair grease.

its exciting that the utopia forums are more competitive then the game!

#livinginthepast

Says the man with nearly 3.8k posts who is only competitive in the Ghetto tier ;)

[John Snowstorm]

Guys, guys, srsly, we're taking this age off, and that was our plan from the start..... and that's why we started the age by using reset exploit to try and explore up some banks and got actioned by Bishop

sounds legit.

[American Badass]

The posts are getting tltr.

[Maximouse]

I just love how all of you seem to know our kd plans better then ourselves. Just a few simple facts now and then you can have another shot at twisting them:

1: KD goal this age was to go CF free as much as possible and basicly war whoever is in range. And see where that leads.
2: We didnt know we waved pyro untill after they posted on the ingame warforum. We only deducted that it was probably ama/bb/pyro based on setup.
3: We wanted to war the best kd's possible in our range. (looks like we did exactly that on oop)

Elit: Ofcourse you scan the islands around you if you plan to war oop. Having an "off age" doesnt mean we suddenly become braindead. We wanted to war and war good kd's. Only a complete moron wouldnt look around then to see if there were any kd's around us that fit that goal.

Proteus, some basic math for you.
eoa was at Jan 19th yr13.
Our CF ran till jan 1st yr10 with 96h notice attached. Notice couldnt be given in hostile, war, or eow cf. Same CF between ama and pyro.
May 1st yr10 till jan 19th yr 13 is 17 days and 19 hours if I count correctly.
Thats 2 weeks, 3 days, 19 hours.
How is that 4 to 5 weeks left? Or how is that ATLEAST 3 weeks left as you state later?

Now asume we just gave you what you wanted. War pyro, no obligation to war us after that, the option to b2b war pyro, same notice deal as before.
At the earliest you go to war with pyro on may 1st yr10. (asuming no time wasted in hostile at all)
War ends July 1st yr10. (again asuming minimum amount of time)
You take 4 days eow cf. Its now april 1st yr11.
By then there are 11 days and 19 hours left in the age.
If we gave ama the deal you wanted we would have had to wait another 4 days before we could even wave. That means 7 days 19 hours left in the game. And we had to hope/pray you wouldnt go b2b on pyro.
And the above is the shortest possible scenario. If you had gone b2b on pyro we would have never been able to go for ama at all if we had given ama the deal extension they wanted.

[PhoenixScorpion]

I just love how all of you seem to know our kd plans better then ourselves. Just a few simple facts now and then you can have another shot at twisting them:

1: KD goal this age was to go CF free as much as possible and basicly war whoever is in range. And see where that leads.
2: We didnt know we waved pyro untill after they posted on the ingame warforum. We only deducted that it was probably ama/bb/pyro based on setup.
3: We wanted to war the best kd's possible in our range. (looks like we did exactly that on oop)

Elit: Ofcourse you scan the islands around you if you plan to war oop. Having an "off age" doesnt mean we suddenly become braindead. We wanted to war and war good kd's. Only a complete moron wouldnt look around then to see if there were any kd's around us that fit that goal.

Proteus, some basic math for you.
eoa was at Jan 19th yr13.
Our CF ran till jan 1st yr10 with 96h notice attached. Notice couldnt be given in hostile, war, or eow cf. Same CF between ama and pyro.
May 1st yr10 till jan 19th yr 13 is 17 days and 19 hours if I count correctly.
Thats 2 weeks, 3 days, 19 hours.
How is that 4 to 5 weeks left? Or how is that ATLEAST 3 weeks left as you state later?

Now asume we just gave you what you wanted. War pyro, no obligation to war us after that, the option to b2b war pyro, same notice deal as before.
At the earliest you go to war with pyro on may 1st yr10. (asuming no time wasted in hostile at all)
War ends July 1st yr10. (again asuming minimum amount of time)
You take 4 days eow cf. Its now april 1st yr11.
By then there are 11 days and 19 hours left in the age.
If we gave ama the deal you wanted we would have had to wait another 4 days before we could even wave. That means 7 days 19 hours left in the game. And we had to hope/pray you wouldnt go b2b on pyro.
And the above is the shortest possible scenario. If you had gone b2b on pyro we would have never been able to go for ama at all if we had given ama the deal extension they wanted.

It is kind of hard to believe you would try to use the reset to launch provinces if what you posted was true.

[John Snowstorm]

The posts are getting tltr.

I prefer the approach of scrolling through anything longer than 5 or 6 lines and then posting non sequitur one liners.

[Maximouse]

1. CR and AMA did not have the same friendly relations AMA has with BB. CR basically had a free relationship CF from elit at times but nothing more. You keep on refusing to admit this *FREE* cf allowed you to get into the position you did last age. It was because we cfed you instead of going for you that you had any advantage. You got the cf for free several ages which allowed you to get into good positons and never worry about fighting AMA and BB b2b but you refused to extend a free cf when AMA asked you for one.
-Tl;dr You refuse to acknowledge that you owe your position last age to a charity cf from AMA and somehow feel you did something special.

Wow. Read a bit better please. I said in respons to your claim ama didnt have any CF's last age that you had a CF with CR and friendly relations with BB. Thats a CF with the 2 best KD's left in the game besides ama as your leader stated. How is that the same as having no CF's?
Your other twist is even better. CR owes their crown to getting a free CF from ama early on? Wasnt ama asking the other kd's in the top for CF's? Sounds to me like you wanted to get CF's. If we didnt CF in freezetime the chance of ama asking for a CF after freezetime would have been pretty huge considering they asked all other kd's in the top for CF's.

2. There were AT LEAST 3 weeks left in the age when things went to a head, there was enough time for 3 wars no problem. If you think about it there was enough time for AMA to war 2 kds as part of GB and there was time for Pyro to extend extra time to CR and then there was time for pyro/cr to fight and then there was time afterwards as well. You liked to benefit for free from elit's cf without earning it through skill and power but you didn't want to give a free cf so we could better prepare to fight a kd who pumped for free all age because you were insecure in your ability to win.

Countered your interresting counting ability in my previous post all ready.

3. You liked to get cfs for free and have it benefit you but you said you had "no reason" to extend a extension to AMA, so you like to take but not give back, well now you won't have a CF again and we can see how you do long term.

All ready explained the scenario that would have followed from giving ama the extension they wanted. There is a huge difference between 2 kd's cf'ing early on when its better for both to fight others 1st and giving a free cf extension when it can very well cost you the crown even though your in the best possible position. There is a simple reason ama/cr never did a nap and a simple reason ama/bb have the option in their "friendly relations" to war near eoa. All kd's want to have a shot at warring the other late age if it can get them the crown.
What ama asked from CR was to basicly give them the option to avoid CR and crown. Thats something completely different than cf'ing strong kd's early on, cause you gain more from fighting weaker opponents early on. cf early on benevids both kd's.

4. In our "off age" we did much better than CR did this age, we actually fought against T5 allied kingdoms and had 3 b2b2b wars which we all won in spite of fighting from a disadvantaged position of not having gc stocks or cows. You guys did not fight any T5 kingdoms this age.

1st: is this age over all ready?
2nd: Whats Pyro's position in the charts? (5th place correct?)
3rd: What do you consider b2b? b2b is generaly considering war-eowcf-war. Howmany of those did you have?

5. It does not matter if you were in CR the ages when AMA and BB both beat CR. Who are you supposed to be? You are a guy who does diplo, they had their monarch, main strat guys and main leaders in place before you came there, you are acting like AMA/BB beating CR without you is like AMA beating sanc without dorje which is a gross overstatement.

Thats a pretty huge leap your making here. What I said was that I have no knowledge of the other ages since I didnt play (either retired or ghetto'ing), and that the line up was quite different the age I joined from the previous ages from what I heard. There were atleast 3 old multiple crowning leaders joining the age I joined. Thats a whole lot of experience and knowledge joining in 1 age and makes quite a bit of difference in terms of time invested for the leaders when your able to spread the workload like we could.

How that is the same as the comparison your making between sanc with or with dorje, and CR with or without me, is beyond me. I was far from the only person joining.

6. The term n00b is relative. Compared to solid top5 kingdoms that were around as little as 5 ages ago (Rage/Sanc/HOH) the kingdoms outside of AMA/BB/CR in that order are not in the same league. When Rage/Sanc were both kds like Havoc were a tier below the best. There are a bunch of new leaders like topsy who don't really know what they are doing and wouldn't hold their own running a kd vs. the retired leaders of even a few ages ago.

Again, your the 1 who calls every KD besides ama/bb/cr noobs. Not me. And topsy (asuming active) is a lot better then you give him credit for. And I think I can judge that a lot better then you since I played with him during a serious age and can therefor compare him to some of those retired leaders. Not even sure if you even played together with him in a serious age, but when somebody is relatively new to the game, even you have to admit they can learn a lot in a few ages time and improve a lot.

7. I don't understand how you say your age is going well when you played to either crown or to beat top kds that try to crown and you did none of those things and ended up losing land to BB and getting knocked way out of charts. I took "off" ages in Rage too where we would not dice all age to crown and be bored but would stay in T5 range and fight non-Abs kds and beat them. We wouldn't drop out of T10 entireley and fight kds that had no impact on crown race, we would fight and beat kds that had an impact on the crown and amassed a strong WW record over them and would still finish T3 but have a lot of higher quality top wars, in our off ages we beat multiple non-abs kd per age (i.e. fury/psychward with ervgotti/skrazz, bio w. flogger, old school, inzzolence, pewpew, etc.) That is typically a top kd's definition of off age, don't have boring inactive age aiming for crown but fight a lot of top kds and focus on beating them but still staying big.

1st: Is the age over allready?
2nd: Are there any KD's you consider serious contenders besides ama and bb?
3rd: Didnt we war Pyro who have a clear late age nw whoring setup?
4th: comparing with Rage when there was a whole different enviorement is pretty silly. Compare it with AMA last age instead okay?
5th: Howmany serious contenders did ama war last age? Who did they have CF's with from the start?

[Maximouse]

PS, will anything any of CR post have any influence on what you want to believe? Isnt it simple knowledge that having cows gives you a better tactitcal position in wars? Why does our attempt to get cows up automaticly mean we dont want to war? We waved (what later turned out to be pyro) 7 hours into the age. If we wanted to go for the crown that has to be a terrible choice.
I think we have atleast a few dozen people with enough experience and math skills on these forums to explain to you how anything besides a complete min. time farm war OOP is bad for crowning chances.
And we waved 1 of the more active and serious KD's left in the game without knowing if they were ama/bb/pyro.

Only way that would have been a good strat for crowning is if we had CF's with 2 of those 3 and just warred the 3rd to take out competion. But we didnt have CF's.