Avian.... What's the Point?

[CPTK]

Been playing for a couple ages now after a long absence from the game (as in I played the first couple ages and then didn't play for however many years until last age). The one race that to me seems like it has no real point is Avian.

Okay, -35% attack time is very good. But then they have -10% gains, which diminishes the value of that bonus quite a bit.

Compared to other heavy attacking races, 6 offense elite and no stables is pretty debilitating.

Their only other bonus besides the -35% attack time is +25% birth rate. Okay, I grant that it can be quite useful in some situations, but it will go unused the great majority of the time.

Unlike human and dwarf, they have no bonuses that would make them more well rounded than the heavy attacking races.

So what is the point of Avian?

[noobium]

non-land attacks.

[StratOcastle]

In kingdom wide conflict the shortcomings of some races can be diminished by proper use. I've seen good avians this age and the water is fine. Think outside of core and imagine core compliments.

[noobium]

avian is weak and difficult to use but it has its niche.

[khronosschoty]

Avian used correctly is awesome!

[CPTK]

Avian used correctly is awesome!

Okay. What is the correct way to use it?

[khronosschoty]

You can chain a lot faster! If you do that correctly as a team its epic.

[CPTK]

You can chain a lot faster! If you do that correctly as a team its epic.

But your gains are less than an undead and far less than an orc.

Your losses are far more than an undead and more than an orc (because you have to send more, especially with no horses).

Your overall offense is worse than both undead and orc.

Your economy is no better than an undead or orc, and far worse than a human or dwarf.

Your thievery is better than an undead, and your magic and thievery are both better than an orc. However, both are far worse than a human or dwarf.

I just can't see why you would ever pick an avian over the other attacking races.

[khronosschoty]

But your gains are less than an undead and far less than an orc.

Your losses are far more than an undead and more than an orc (because you have to send more, especially with no horses).

Your overall offense is worse than both undead and orc.

Your economy is no better than an undead or orc, and far worse than a human or dwarf.

Your thievery is better than an undead, and your magic and thievery are both better than an orc. However, both are far worse than a human or dwarf.

I just can't see why you would ever pick an avian over the other attacking races.

Give me an ideal kingdom and I think you should be surprised how fast I chain you down. Since I will be dragging you down so fast and making you loose tons of DEF and possible even off, my greater losses wont matter much, and economy? You wont have much economy when I am done. But with that 25% BR I am sure to have the economy lead.

[crease]

But your gains are less than an undead and far less than an orc.

Your losses are far more than an undead and more than an orc (because you have to send more, especially with no horses).

Your overall offense is worse than both undead and orc.

Your economy is no better than an undead or orc, and far worse than a human or dwarf.

Your thievery is better than an undead, and your magic and thievery are both better than an orc. However, both are far worse than a human or dwarf.

I just can't see why you would ever pick an avian over the other attacking races.

1.You have more gains than an undead, and very comparable gains to an orc
2. Losses are percentage based, avian has no higher losses than any race. What you are looking for is that they have to spend more to retrain their losses, but thats not true either, they get more peasant growth and leets are cheap enough to draft in war.
3. true
4. your economy is certainly better than undead. Free draft on orc is pretty ridiculous given the myriad of other benefits that come with +gains and +enemy casualties
5.Why is your thievery/magic worse than a dwarf? Cause you chose not to pump?

6. Avian is underpowered in raw numbers sure, but geting 2x5 hour massacres in war between enemy hits easily makes up for it. Just gotta have the activity to do it for a week or more. Thats why avian isnt played heavily.

[khronosschoty]

1.You have more gains than an undead, and very comparable gains to an orc
2. Losses are percentage based, avian has no higher losses than any race. What you are looking for is that they have to spend more to retrain their losses, but thats not true either, they get more peasant growth and leets are cheap enough to draft in war.
3. true
4. your economy is certainly better than undead. Free draft on orc is pretty ridiculous given the myriad of other benefits that come with +gains and +enemy casualties
5.Why is your thievery/magic worse than a dwarf? Cause you chose not to pump?

6. Avian is underpowered in raw numbers sure, but geting 2x5 hour massacres in war between enemy hits easily makes up for it. Just gotta have the activity to do it for a week or more. Thats why avian isnt played heavily.

2.) he said they have more losses then a UNDEAD.

Otherwise very nice post!

[crease]

2.) he said they have more losses then a UNDEAD.

Otherwise very nice post!

hah i skipped over that, the reply was comparing w/any other heavy

[neanderthal]

Avian can steal, undead can not.

Avian can plan attacks. Ie plus 2 or 4 and not have to set alarms overnight and then set up
Properly can also do 2 more attacks for a total of 3 (not bottom feeding) a day.

[noobium]

avian is still weak but it's strong points are something a player can discern. the only problem then is how to utilize them for something good, instead of doing something random.

if you're in a kingdom that just looks at acres and number of hits, and doesn't have any planning behind those hits, don't pick avian.

neanderthal and crease touched on the broad points though - positioning avian hits is pretty effective, and the speed bonus leads to some rapid damage if the avian is in a position to use it effectively. orcs can inflict damage too, but they have to worry about landchains more.

avian is pretty good with a thief focus, unlike most other attackers. dwarves can pull it off too but their army is still slower.

[khronosschoty]

A well executed avian core can be devastating.