Emerald Dragon Against UD KD

[jbabin87]

We were having this debate within our kingdom. Does the Undead casualty loss bonus negate half of the Emerald dragon effects?

If the troop loss with no dragon and no bonus would normally be 100 troops, would the UD bonus be applied first and 50 troops would die, and then an additional 10 added by the dragon for a total of 60?

OR

If the troop loss with no dragon and no bonus would normally be 100 troops, the dragon adds 20 and the UD bonus removes 50 for a total of 70 deaths.

Also, what dragon would you send to a KD with 14 UD and 6 T/m.

[zaza945]

I believe losses multiple, ie 100*.5*1.15= 57.5 losses on UD with emerald dragon vs 100*1.15= 115 losses on non UD with dragon. So emerald = less losses on UD compared to other races, at least that's how I understand it.

Type of dragon has a lot of other factors to consider, specifically what your set up is and what your tpa/wpa is on tms compared to theirs. If they have multiple attackers with Os that are close to breaking your tms ruby can be a good first dragon, especially if you have the ability to fund #2 quickly. Sapphire is a good choice in majority of situations though, and I probably wouldn't go with emerald unless your plan was to be hitting them army home for a wave.

[topsy's revenge]

emerald is a casualty modifier just like all other casualty modifiers. When it modifies an undead who is attacking it will be modifying a number that has already been lowered by race and hospitals.

In general, saph is the way to go.

[Palem]

We were having this debate within our kingdom. Does the Undead casualty loss bonus negate half of the Emerald dragon effects?

If the troop loss with no dragon and no bonus would normally be 100 troops, would the UD bonus be applied first and 50 troops would die, and then an additional 10 added by the dragon for a total of 60?

OR

If the troop loss with no dragon and no bonus would normally be 100 troops, the dragon adds 20 and the UD bonus removes 50 for a total of 70 deaths.

Most mods in this game are multiplicative, and multiplication is commutative, so it doesn't matter which order they happen in.
Emerald would prolly be the worst choice in this case, but the other three can be used effectively if you've got a good plan behind it.

[noobium]

sapphire is the best if your kingdom can actually use it, and the worst if your kingdom can't use it. it tends to be the most useful in long wars, and there is no promise of being able to fund additional dragons in those wars.

dunno your situation but ruby or gold are the least likely to **** up.

[skoyl12]

All modifiers like dragon, pf etc affect the base loses. I'm not sure about this now but i think base loses are around 7% on specs and 5% on elites? (or at least that used to be :)
So if you send 100 troops (elites) to attack without any modifiers you'd lose 5
With emerald and no other mods you'd lose 5*1.2= 6
An un undead would lose 2.5 while with emerald on he'd lose 3

A)100*0.95^x= 60 => x~=9
B)100*0.975^x=60 => x~=20
C)100*0.94^x= 60 => x~=8
D)100*0.97^x=60 => x~=16

The 4 equasions above are how many attacks you can do before you raw offense drops from 100% to 60%.
A. is an orc for example that uses elites and has no modifiers that reduse or increase loses. After 10 attacks he'll be about 50% mod offense
B. is undead and he can do double+ attacks while ending up with the same.
C. is orc with emerald dragon.
D. is undead with emerald dragon.

I'm really bored now to further expand it but you can put all the other modifiers on the equasions and see how much attacks it takes for offense or defense to drop to 60% or 50%

Orc warrior with all mods will probably get crazy modifers on kills which is further amplified the bigger the orc is (since the base of the expodential can be 50k for a 5k orc for example)

[StratOcastle]

See, I hate it that I'm aware of dragons now. For a long time I've been content with the idea of tanking but lately been paying attention to numbers. This is a negative trait in the lower tier.

I'm not broke up about it(maybe a little) but I send my specs ASAP so 1) I've got the neon sign of lower nw 2) there are always the all day stragglers who won't do their part 3) so with emerald I watch our guys paying dearly and unnecessarily for 2 waves

And I'm sympathetic to some strategic reasoning. Since I'm keen at gap tactics I can stand to see others send more who aren't in critical nw zones. War before last I got chained and set up shop as a crappy bank since ours was rendered incapable. I sent whatever I trained every tic I was awake. But this got me back where I started with being content tanking. Our guys would wait so long the enemy already had the next dragon paid for. LoL.

[Palem]

I'm not sure about this now but i think base loses are around 7% on specs and 5% on elites? (or at least that used to be :)

Base losses are 7% on offense, 5% on defense afaik.
Elites never had lower casualties, you just naturally lose less since you need less of them to get the same numbers out of specs.

[skoyl12]

I think 10 years ago elites had less casualties and the game was checking the number of troops you send with the number that defends but i cant say that i'm sure either :)
The last ages i havent bothered to check numbers on deaths, my point was though that the modified value is the 0.07 or 0.05

[noobium]

Slaying dragons is far preferable to tanking them in most situations. The only dragon I might want to tank (assuming I can slay and not get another dragon sent shortly after) is Sapphire, if it's from a kingdom that can't utilize it properly. With the others, the effects are based on things which are consistently successful rather than random like ops, and tanking for even 2 days winds up costing so much in opportunity cost. Sometimes it makes sense to tank dragons temporarily if troops are needed to attack, but tanking for 6 days might be worse than having to slay two dragons back to back.

[topsy's revenge]

wh ftw!

[StratOcastle]

Undead WH for the win!

See this to. Everybody said I'd knock my eye out if I used war spoils. So war before last the enemy steward WH was slippin' it to us and we never could wrap that rascal up. #loss column.

I'm deskeptical of certain warnings like ' it's not worth it unless you're big ' or ' amnesia is situational '.

;-)

[topsy's revenge]

im a pretty big fan of ud/tact and half/human/fae/elf/wh(assuming kd can coordinate things). UD cares about nothing but brains.

[TerricK]

No palem .... Back in the day..elites died at a lower rate than specs... But, it is different now... Now it's a percent of troops sent... Back in the day all elite armies would lose less than an all spec army.. which made all elite armies ideal..

[Palem]

meh, I thought that was the case but someone talked me out of thinking that a while ago. I guess it doesn't really matter anyway :p