Human Attacker/War Hero?

[Litreofcola]

Hey all, I just came back to Utopia and I was doing an Undead Tact attacker, and I am not happy with it. I feel like every attack is like a suicide, so I was wonder, how viable would a Human/War Hero be?

I almost think going 100% elites would be the way to go(not sure if this is still a thing to be honest) and wasn't sure about the build, but I am sure armories and homes would be in there. Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?

[Persain]

Next age it might be a good idea, this age its a bit late to go either human or sage as they are both pretty reliant on science.

I definitely would run 100% leet on human if u can. I also wouldn't include arms in a "war" build as you should not be spending gold on training during war as a human. Use stored up spec credits to train during war.

Personally i wouldn't run homes/war hero on a human, but those issues are a little bit more up for debate then my above comments.

[topsy's revenge]

hum/wh is pretty solid. You want to be on the larger side of your kd if possible. More leets you can get the better! In general you normally only want arms for when your training a lot(end of eowcf/fort). In war other buildings are almost always more efficient. Homes can be good in lots of situation, but is a super super situation dependent building. They can easily be the most useless building you can build in a number of common circumstances.

[StratOcastle]

If you get the chance maybe you can adopt a human WH, or at least a human. There are a few kingdoms that were recruiting that were human heavy. This does depend how much you enjoy your current kingdom. I've spent a few ages trying all kinds of builds. Rusty was recruiting, and if there was a place to get humans right I'd bet they do.
PyroManiaCs are human WH core this age, just not sure if they're recruiting.

[noobium]

humans really rely on pumping to be effective. sometimes it's better to keep homes after a pump, if there is nothing immediately useful to replace them with; but when doing this, it is useful to have some money on hand to replace homes with more useful buildings, or let the homes fade out in favor of war buildings.

humans are much less effective in kingdoms that cannot organize pumps, and work much better when there are several humans, or better yet all of the kingdom can turtle behind high defense.

[Palem]

The game has shifted a lot since the old days. If it feels like every attack is a suicide then you're doing it right. The game is heavily offensive and turtles don't really have much of a place.

[topsy's revenge]

^ this could not be farther from the truth regardless of the type of kd you play in.

[noobium]

turtling has a very big place in war strategies. human has the best options, since they can field high offense when high offense is valuable, and defense when defense is valuable. other races really can't, and don't have the economic boosts human has. while they will lack offense compared to some of the other attacker options, they should have enough to hit most targets, and if they are full-elite they are carrying a lot of potential offense on small acres - only orcs and undeads with a lot of mounts or homes come close, and they don't have the defense or economy to make it work the way human does.

anyway in the long term, the potential to sit behind a wall of knights is something a growing attacker would probably want more than anything, and humans can do this while being an effective attacker. it is definitely worth the raw offense hit humans take, but it isn't always easy to use. that is why it is useful to have a significant part of the kingdom capable of playing the same turtle game, to remove defensive weaknesses. too few humans and it is too easy to isolate individual humans with chains, fb, or whatever, and the few humans have to make strategic decisions they wouldn't have to make if there were other humans to take their place.

solo human isn't particularly good. would want at least 5 humans in a kingdom if i were to run any, unless there was a good reason to run fewer. 4 humans, maybe, but that gets into the territory where the humans start having to make decisions they would rather not. 1-2 humans is basically suicide unless those humans are playing cows and they can guarantee safety to most of the server (and even then, there are probably better options).

[Lestat]

Undead/Tact is bad boy.

[tetley]

human war hero is the nut high, although tbh often you feel very vulnerable when sending out anyways.
Truth is that most provinces can be broken by heavy attackers in range, but it is not always profitable or optimal to do so, especially in war. Which is why turtling is still a very real thing. Lots of undeads don't want to spend all their offence for one hit on a human when they could 3 or 4-tap an attacker instead.
Regardless, human wh is cool, it is what I am playing this age, and we run 3 others in the KD. All elite army is solid. But it is true, it kind of sucks to start a human now with no sci.

[StratOcastle]

Undead/Tact is bad boy.

Agreed. I'm usually playing undead cleric when I run heavy attacker and dueling undead tac has always been a dangerous game. The ages when tac had the ambush protection were precarious encounters. Felt like a slow short wrestler fighting a tall fast boxer. Had to chose my openings knowing I was going to eat some leather. ;-)

[noobium]

the really beautiful thing about human is that, if they aren't chained super deep, they give no ****s about a landchain. 6/4 is just so much more competitive at the bottom than any other elite, both for the combined strength and because other attackwes are resigned to basically no defense.

even when human does lose a lot of elites, they still have their better science to fall back on, and they still have some defense rather than the no defense most other provinces would have.

edit: going on a tangent here, but it would be a lot easier to manage chains as undead/orc if not for the need to manually aid soldiers to make sure defspec are retained. stuff like that adds to the tedium factor of managing those provinces. perhaps overpopulation mechanics should be tweaked to reduce the desertion rate, or at least cap it at a level that allows chained provinces to retain more defspec if they're offline. right now a major determining factor for kingdoms is just going through the tedium of having provinces online to manage being chained. i suppose it works better for kingdoms that are willing to take their own provinces' intel in order to throw soldiers at them, but it's still an added step.

i have a hard enough time explaining to people in ghettoland that chained provinces want to receive soldiers in certain situations, and they wind up releasing too early. i suppose that's better than people who balk at me for actually doing the correct move.

[tetley]

Yes, it's nice when your military deserts/is released at a constant ratio of off to def.

[topsy's revenge]

The reason humans are so cool with their full elit is that they can go TD and kind of poor tpa if you want and still be able to NS provs that overgrow while having decent NS/Prop def against t/m's due to your elites. Also, being able to perfectly manipulate your def is a HUGE deal. If the enemy has 300k offense then the difference between having 295k def and 170k def or so is functionally the same for chain defense, and yet it is a MASSIVE difference in how much off you can use. Other races are forced to pretty much always get suboptimal defenses, while humans can optimize theirs perfectly.

Also, in my experience overpop mitigation is one of the biggest differences between top kd's and most kd's in the game.

[noobium]

Humans are very cool with Elit, as charts tell...

I would say that even late Humans aren't too bad off, if they can find time to learn attack small but science-rich targets. What is the science average on the server now? I think a lot of attackers at the mid-tier would have about 1-1.2mil books. Would be hard to get superior science, but humans would have less difficulty catching up to the server average than a lot of other options.

Human is also nice due to their ability to play well at any size tier. Bigger is usually better, but a small human is in a much better position than a small elf or faery, and usually in a better position than small halfer.