Give Mystics a tool for retaliation

[Engman]

For too long have attackers been able to do what they want with us without us having any ability to strike back in any meaningful way, us T/Ms need a way to "hurt" opponents that attack us. As it is now we are only capable of doing harm if someone overextends and multi-taps into your kingdom and unlocks unfriendly spells, which let's be honest, no half-smart kingdom will give you UF unless it's a wave or a complete blunder.

We need access to our full arsenal (or at least some of it) for use on those single hits, getting a 10 hour greed on someone who just plundered you for millions or hundreds of thousands of science books isn't really packing quite the punch to represent how i feel about getting hit.

Now some might argue that i should have a kingdom mate retaliate for me but wheres the fun in that? If someone plunders, learns or land grabs me, i want some options on how to proceed myself, i don't want to look at my spell options and see storms/drought/greed as my only options because lets be honest, they do **** all on an individual basis and half of my options are rendered useless if the target knows how to use self-spells. Thieves are also limited to UF/WAR only ops but atleast they have far more tricks up their sleeve in normal relations than mystics do.

What if we received a window of opportunity once being hit, a short period of time (maybe a few hours) where we have access to more difficult spells, against the target who hit us only and not his entire kingdom, just anything really, anything that let's me show him that he won't get away with it instead of just sitting there unable to do anything.

[Palem]

If you don't find pleasure in playing a supporting role, you shouldn't play support.

[Engman]

Wow, creative and constructive responses as always from you Sir Palem. You need to learn not to read too much between the lines, read and respond to what has been written, not to what you interpret. And by that logic anyone who posts suggestions on this forum should just quit the game then, since clearly they don't enjoy it?

I do enjoy it, i wouldn't be playing it if i didn't. But that doesn't mean i have to be 100% satisfied with how the role works. Nobody can claim that being a Mystic outside of hostile/war isn't boring, there is nothing we can do what so ever.
We have 5 spells available @ all times, Drought, Greed, Storms, Explosions and Expose Thieves, add Pitfalls if you're a Faery/Elf or Cleric, 2 of them can be prevented by Natures Blessing. There are several weeks of play time every age as Mystic where you can't do anything else but cast protective spells on your own province, there's so much room for improvement there, and especially when you are hit by an attacker, those explosions and greed is sure to keep him away next time after receiving such a harsh retaliation right?

[chalsdk]

but he is right.. a TM is just that, support. They give attion dmg vs instant dmg.

Or you can play a halfling and trad him back :-)

[noobium]

No need for special rules - play a mystic that can hit back efficiently and it's less of an issue for a single province. The problem isn't Mystic so much as it is Faery and Elf, as Faeries have the hardest time fighting retal wars. Elf is somewhat better but their nw range is going to suck like no other. Supporting a high wpa and an army that stands well on its own is going to be problematic.

Faery/Mystics would and should probably have a decent offensive thief component to their provinces, and have the same retal ability as any other thief.

Due to the way war button works, a lot of kingdoms are only willing to put in two hits, so the mystic might not lose much by sending out - if they are not worried about outside retals. Sending out armies with a t/m in order to bait hostile is sometimes useful, then you can engage in retalwar with ops. Funtimes...

[Engman]

but he is right.. a TM is just that, support. They give attion dmg vs instant dmg.

Or you can play a halfling and trad him back :-)

That doesn't help does it, and just to be clear i am fairly well aware of how this game works, and how T/M works. I'm simply saying that they could be more than support, whats the point of having lots of fun and destructive spells when you can't use them 50% of the time, not even against the people that attack you. I wouldn't say any race is worse than the other because in this scenario we have the same capabilities. You can't be an attacking mystic and provide a good support role, some people will argue that hybrids are widely used and they work just fine but i disagree, you end up being a jack of no trades. If you run a full time T/M, which you have to do if you want to successfully provide a reliable spell/op coverage in wars, you won't be able to have any offense worth mentioning, unless you sacrifice defense, and that just leads to you getting taken down with little or no effort. The way most warring kingdoms play their T/Ms is through dedicated Halfers/Elves/Faeries, there is no room for offense. But you all know this, you hardly need a lesson on how utopia works, neither do i, all i'm saying is that the potential of the mystic is severely and unfairly limited outside of hostiles. and i would enjoy it more if i had access to more spells outside of hostile.

[Palem]

I wasn't reading inbetween the lines. You said right here having kd mates retal for you isn't fun:

Now some might argue that i should have a kingdom mate retaliate for me but wheres the fun in that?

No need to be so hostile to someone shooting down your idea.

[Engman]

If you want to shoot down my idea then follow the forum guidelines that you're supposed to enforce. Your comment was just arrogant.

That said, to all of the people who choose to critique suggestions, please remain polite. Constructive criticism is always welcomed and will never lead you to trouble. If you stumble across a bad suggestion, explain why the suggestion is bad and how it can be improved or why the suggestion should just be scrapped.

[Palem]

I did explain why it's bad.

Support isn't meant to have firepower at the ready. They're meant to support the attackers, who are the firepower of the kd.

[Zauper]

If you want to retal, run offense.

t/ms have plenty of opportunities to shine, they don't need to be strengthened in no rels.

[Engman]

I agree, they don't need strengthening, but having 0 useful spells as a Faery/Elf Mystic (When spells is pretty much all you can do) for such a large part of the game seems sort of lackluster Now don't get me wrong here, i'm not asking for a buff, just access to what we already have for more of the time played. For an organized kingdom this isn't a problem, you can always organize retaliatory actions with your kingdom, but what about new players then? If you end up in a kingdom with almost no provinces or just a disorganized ghetto kingdom and you want to play a Mystic? Mystics are probably the only "role" where you cant sustain yourself, you can't play it to it's full potential unless you are at war which never happens for some kingdoms, it doesn't seem like that big of a stretch to me, to open up more spells outside of hostile/war and allow people to play that role in a more individual manner.

[Zauper]

I agree, they don't need strengthening, but having 0 useful spells as a Faery/Elf Mystic (When spells is pretty much all you can do) for such a large part of the game seems sort of lackluster Now don't get me wrong here, i'm not asking for a buff, just access to what we already have for more of the time played. For an organized kingdom this isn't a problem, you can always organize retaliatory actions with your kingdom, but what about new players then? If you end up in a kingdom with almost no provinces or just a disorganized ghetto kingdom and you want to play a Mystic? Mystics are probably the only "role" where you cant sustain yourself, you can't play it to it's full potential unless you are at war which never happens for some kingdoms, it doesn't seem like that big of a stretch to me, to open up more spells outside of hostile/war and allow people to play that role in a more individual manner.

You could cast:
quickfeet/war spoils/fana and retal.

Mystics can 'sustain themselves' as well or better than anyone else. Fae has ToG, for example. Elf has cheap military. It's silly to have a kingdom game and then argue that you should be able to access all the team features without a team.

They also generally have better TPA than attackers, so they can 'retal' the same way a rogue would, which you seem to think is fine.

[tetley]

You just need to be ready to hit back. If you're a reasonably trained faery, and someone opens on you, it probably means they don't have too much def at home... if they don't have too many bonuses to speed you might be able to retal and beat them home with QF.

edit: ^ zauper beat me to it.

[Engman]

Those are not "combat spells" by definition, those are self spells, and running a hybrid Faery/Elf mystic attacker with WPA and TPA? Who's being silly now ;) They don't have more population than attackers, if a Mystic has a higher TPA that means it comes at the expense of something else. Regardless, op and spell costs outside of hostile/war is very steep, as a Thief you might be able to do some limited economic damage through stealing but nothing that comes even remotely close to what an attacker can do to you.

[Bishop]

If you want to shoot down my idea then follow the forum guidelines that you're supposed to enforce. Your comment was just arrogant.

Knock off the hostility or your posting privileges will be revoked.