If these changes were made, which would you pick?

[smercjd]

http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...7-Race-Changes
http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...nality-Changes

If you had the above changes for next age...which race/personality would you pick for...

A) Full Attacker
B) T/M
C) A/M Hybrid
D) A/T Hybrid
E) Your own personal Enjoyment.

[smercjd]

I'll start this off

A) Avian/Tactician - Super fast attack times, good thievery defense
B) Faery/Saboteur - Lots of TM dmg!!!
C) Undead/Necromancer - Good attack power with the instant spell conversion seems good
D) Orc/Pirate - THEM GAINS!
E) Atlantean/War Hero - I like honor :D

[goodz]

Move this to strategy.

[Cry0]

All I read was faery getting clear sight.. =) and by your other race getting all self spells and faery getting all racial spells I am reading that as faery get all self spells also. Annnd elves get no NM? That kind of.. is dumb. Sorry.

[Zauper]

Back in the late teens/20s, nightmares was undead/fae (all spells bonus) only.

[smercjd]

All I read was faery getting clear sight.. =) and by your other race getting all self spells and faery getting all racial spells I am reading that as faery get all self spells also. Annnd elves get no NM? That kind of.. is dumb. Sorry.

What's wrong with Elve's not getting Nightmare? And they can if they go Mystic.
Faery with clear sight is what it used to be a long time ago when they had access to all spells. I think Zauper made a good point about way back when. Not saying that it should go back to those days or anything, but that was when I last played. So I missed a lot of the changes and why those changes were made.

If you consider all aspects of the changes...faeries with clear sight isn't that huge. But yes, I didn't mean for faeries to have all self-spells by proxy of Zephyrs. Maybe change to all unique self-spells (zephyr having no "unique" self-spell).

[Nightmare_]

Listed too many, so I cropped it down to my personal choices :p Undead and tactician seem pretty strong. A lot of the newer races/personalities you suggested seem relatively weak.

A) Full Attacker: Human/Tactician

Nice turtle capabilities and science bonus. -1 mana will keep you plagued vs. undead KDs and you can't take advantage of NM waves to turtle so you might have to NS through WT + tactician immunity. Elites are expensive especially without tog, but high arms in eowcf should remediate that with +income and +sci.

B) T/M: Faery/Rogue

Straightforward. Prop/AW/NM damage mod.

Human/Elf have mods which discourage T/M. Saboteur seems alright but gives up a lot. It's most useful for NM-heavy strats but undead immunity is ridic and it's less effective vs. full elite armies.

C) A/M Hybrid: Dwarf/Cleric

Dwarf for turtle potential and economy/BE. Cleric for FB/Chast machine with +WPA. Free hospitals for space efficiency, although dwarf will probably need them anyway for plague.

D) A/T Hybrid: Atlantean/Rogue

Might be an interesting combo with a homes build. Super thief early in war, tanked attacker later. Free GS is good. Lacks sci mods but MS immunity is a huge advantage for turtling A/T

E) Your own personal Enjoyment: Atlantean/Tactician

Atlantean/Tactician with 20% GS and emerald; 50% gains, MS immunity

[Cry0]

Ah i misread the mystic all offensive spells.

[smercjd]

Listed too many, so I cropped it down to my personal choices :p Undead and tactician seem pretty strong. A lot of the newer races/personalities you suggested seem relatively weak.

A) Full Attacker: Human/Tactician

Nice turtle capabilities and science bonus. -1 mana will keep you plagued vs. undead KDs and you can't take advantage of NM waves to turtle so you might have to NS through WT + tactician immunity. Elites are expensive especially without tog, but high arms in eowcf should remediate that with +income and +sci.

B) T/M: Faery/Rogue

Straightforward. Prop/AW/NM damage mod.

Human/Elf have mods which discourage T/M. Saboteur seems alright but gives up a lot. It's most useful for NM-heavy strats but undead immunity is ridic and it's less effective vs. full elite armies.

C) A/M Hybrid: Dwarf/Cleric

Dwarf for turtle potential and economy/BE. Cleric for FB/Chast machine with +WPA. Free hospitals for space efficiency, although dwarf will probably need them anyway for plague.

D) A/T Hybrid: Atlantean/Rogue

Might be an interesting combo with a homes build. Super thief early in war, tanked attacker later. Free GS is good. Lacks sci mods but MS immunity is a huge advantage for turtling A/T

E) Your own personal Enjoyment: Atlantean/Tactician

Atlantean/Tactician with 20% GS and emerald; 50% gains, MS immunity

Nightmare - join my kingdom. Now. lol -- Um well we are actually naming our KD with a Nightmare theme. After having decided this, I realized there was already a KD called Your Worst Nightmare (or something along those lines)...but they don't seem to be doing so well, and they are all named ...phobia. SO it's not the exact same. So join us.

Yeah wow, the Atlantean/Rogue sounds really fun - so does Atlantean/Tactician....hmmm - you peak my curiousity. What were the races/personalities you thought were weak?

[Nightmare_]

Nightmare - join my kingdom. Now. lol -- Um well we are actually naming our KD with a Nightmare theme. After having decided this, I realized there was already a KD called Your Worst Nightmare (or something along those lines)...but they don't seem to be doing so well, and they are all named ...phobia. SO it's not the exact same. So join us.

Yeah wow, the Atlantean/Rogue sounds really fun - so does Atlantean/Tactician....hmmm - you peak my curiousity. What were the races/personalities you thought were weak?

Too many Nightmares. I'd get claustrophobic. You're welcome to join the KD I'm in though. :p

It's not so much that they're weak (barring couple glaring exceptions), but that some of the races/personalities are so strong that they overshadow the others.

1. Atlanteans are pretty solid without honor, and with honor they pummel all the other races. At Count, you'd have 20% OME increase, 10% pop, 10% income, 30% tpa/wpa. It's possible to run a/t/m solidly once you get honor. If I had to pick a setup I'd do a mix of Atlantean/Rogue and Tactician, Dwarf/Cleric, and Faery/Mystic, or just run all these personalities with Atlantean if I was really confident.

2. One of the reasons why Saboteur is comparatively weak is because lack of MS/Prop/AW. No reason to play saboteur over mystic or rogue besides an NM/NS strategy to save runes, and the strength of Undead/Tact and elite-heavy races shuts that down fast.

3. Tactician is overpowered. 20% thief autofail with no way to disable/MV, AND QF/-15% speed. One possibility is to make this autofail another personality entirely and call it sentry or watchman, and give a lesser bonus like double prisoners. Autofail % can be adjusted or you can give the personality CS to give possibility of MVing.

4. Human seems a bit strong. Without population neg it can run comparable military numbers to undead/orc. Undead bit strong also with immunity, plague and other bonuses.
5. Formoreans and Zephyrs are very weak. Zephyrs are defensive races and yet have 6/1 elite with -5% pop. Formoreans bad elite and bad negs. Soldier army won't compensate for it, although could be fun.
6. Merchant/pirate too strong (though would still pick tactician over them), warrior too weak relatively speaking
7. Necromancer I'm not sure about. Depends on the 10% re-animate. If Town Watch peasants and PF considered, then could pretty much replace your losses, basically 5-100% decreases in losses. Trog/Necromancer could be interesting. Animate spell is weak though, 10 casts = 30% mana = 1% population drafted. Depends on cost I guess.

Interesting changes though, some concepts I haven't seen suggested before. With these changes you can actually run into rock-paper-scissors type scenarios that go beyond attacker > thief > mage > attacker

[smercjd]

Too many Nightmares. I'd get claustrophobic. You're welcome to join the KD I'm in though. :p

It's not so much that they're weak (barring couple glaring exceptions), but that some of the races/personalities are so strong that they overshadow the others.

1. Atlanteans are pretty solid without honor, and with honor they pummel all the other races. At Count, you'd have 20% OME increase, 10% pop, 10% income, 30% tpa/wpa. It's possible to run a/t/m solidly once you get honor. If I had to pick a setup I'd do a mix of Atlantean/Rogue and Tactician, Dwarf/Cleric, and Faery/Mystic, or just run all these personalities with Atlantean if I was really confident.

2. One of the reasons why Saboteur is comparatively weak is because lack of MS/Prop/AW. No reason to play saboteur over mystic or rogue besides an NM/NS strategy to save runes, and the strength of Undead/Tact and elite-heavy races shuts that down fast.

3. Tactician is overpowered. 20% thief autofail with no way to disable/MV, AND QF/-15% speed. One possibility is to make this autofail another personality entirely and call it sentry or watchman, and give a lesser bonus like double prisoners. Autofail % can be adjusted or you can give the personality CS to give possibility of MVing.

4. Human seems a bit strong. Without population neg it can run comparable military numbers to undead/orc. Undead bit strong also with immunity, plague and other bonuses.
5. Formoreans and Zephyrs are very weak. Zephyrs are defensive races and yet have 6/1 elite with -5% pop. Formoreans bad elite and bad negs. Soldier army won't compensate for it, although could be fun.
6. Merchant/pirate too strong (though would still pick tactician over them), warrior too weak relatively speaking
7. Necromancer I'm not sure about. Depends on the 10% re-animate. If Town Watch peasants and PF considered, then could pretty much replace your losses, basically 5-100% decreases in losses. Trog/Necromancer could be interesting. Animate spell is weak though, 10 casts = 30% mana = 1% population drafted. Depends on cost I guess.

Interesting changes though, some concepts I haven't seen suggested before. With these changes you can actually run into rock-paper-scissors type scenarios that go beyond attacker > thief > mage > attacker

Do you mind if I quote these in the race/pers suggestions? You have a VERY strong sense of the game it seems and make very good points.
As for joining you, well - I'm the monarch, so I can't really leave haha. :) I think you're in the other phobia kingdom.

[Nightmare_]

Do you mind if I quote these in the race/pers suggestions? You have a VERY strong sense of the game it seems and make very good points.
As for joining you, well - I'm the monarch, so I can't really leave haha. :) I think you're in the other phobia kingdom.

Seems like you did it anyway haha. Shrug, doesn't matter.

I wasn't even aware there was one phobia kingdom. :p

[noobium]

meh those changes aren't too good but i'll bite...

A) Full Attacker
Atlantean/Tactician, Zephyr/Tactician, Undead/Pirate, Human/Merchant

B) Pure T/m
Atlantean/Mystic for spellcaster, Atlantean/Sage for defensive t/m, Atlantean/Rogue to counter other t/ms, Atlantean/Saboteur to counter other attackers or weakened opponents.

C/D) "Hybrid"
Playing "hybrid" is dumb as a dedicated strategy for mechanical reasons, but Atlantean again. A player can "hybrid" as a t/m if they have the right army set up.

E) For Fun
I wouldn't find it fun to know that half of the races are crap, and a few are far above everything else. Avians, Halflings, Trogs, Formoreans are unplayable, Elves and Orcs are borderline unplayable. Warrior, Necromancer, and Settler are all unplayable personalities. Faery is unplayable for growing anything significant, and while that can be worked around for most kingdoms, it is probably better to trade Faery's damage for a race with the same defense and a better ability to hit out. Zephyr's spellbook advantages and effective increase in mana make up for their weak-looking stats, and they are the only race with native tog. While other races can be merchants, the same few good races are the only ones that use it particularly we, and it is still a personality pick that can be neutralized. Ultimately the server gets dominated by OP honorwhore Atlanteans, which have some of the best intrinsic abilities without honor let alone with Count+, so if I want to have "fun" I'd go with the dominant race of the age.

[goodz]

meh those changes aren't too good but i'll bite...

A) Full Attacker
Atlantean/Tactician, Zephyr/Tactician, Undead/Pirate, Human/Merchant

B) Pure T/m
Atlantean/Mystic for spellcaster, Atlantean/Sage for defensive t/m, Atlantean/Rogue to counter other t/ms, Atlantean/Saboteur to counter other attackers or weakened opponents.

C/D) "Hybrid"
Playing "hybrid" is dumb as a dedicated strategy for mechanical reasons, but Atlantean again. A player can "hybrid" as a t/m if they have the right army set up.

E) For Fun
I wouldn't find it fun to know that half of the races are crap, and a few are far above everything else. Avians, Halflings, Trogs, Formoreans are unplayable, Elves and Orcs are borderline unplayable. Warrior, Necromancer, and Settler are all unplayable personalities. Faery is unplayable for growing anything significant, and while that can be worked around for most kingdoms, it is probably better to trade Faery's damage for a race with the same defense and a better ability to hit out. Zephyr's spellbook advantages and effective increase in mana make up for their weak-looking stats, and they are the only race with native tog. While other races can be merchants, the same few good races are the only ones that use it particularly we, and it is still a personality pick that can be neutralized. Ultimately the server gets dominated by OP honorwhore Atlanteans, which have some of the best intrinsic abilities without honor let alone with Count+, so if I want to have "fun" I'd go with the dominant race of the age.

+15% BE is pretty epic. I think your predictions on what sucks is a bit off.

[Nightmare_]

meh those changes aren't too good but i'll bite...

A) Full Attacker
Atlantean/Tactician, Zephyr/Tactician, Undead/Pirate, Human/Merchant

B) Pure T/m
Atlantean/Mystic for spellcaster, Atlantean/Sage for defensive t/m, Atlantean/Rogue to counter other t/ms, Atlantean/Saboteur to counter other attackers or weakened opponents.

C/D) "Hybrid"
Playing "hybrid" is dumb as a dedicated strategy for mechanical reasons, but Atlantean again. A player can "hybrid" as a t/m if they have the right army set up.

E) For Fun
I wouldn't find it fun to know that half of the races are crap, and a few are far above everything else. Avians, Halflings, Trogs, Formoreans are unplayable, Elves and Orcs are borderline unplayable. Warrior, Necromancer, and Settler are all unplayable personalities. Faery is unplayable for growing anything significant, and while that can be worked around for most kingdoms, it is probably better to trade Faery's damage for a race with the same defense and a better ability to hit out. Zephyr's spellbook advantages and effective increase in mana make up for their weak-looking stats, and they are the only race with native tog. While other races can be merchants, the same few good races are the only ones that use it particularly we, and it is still a personality pick that can be neutralized. Ultimately the server gets dominated by OP honorwhore Atlanteans, which have some of the best intrinsic abilities without honor let alone with Count+, so if I want to have "fun" I'd go with the dominant race of the age.

So hard to please :p No need to be crass either. Halflings not unplayable, neither are elves, orcs, trogs, or avians really. You make it seem like he royally f'ed everything up. It's mostly that a few choices are far superior and should be balanced. Necromancer and settler aren't unplayable either. Trog/Necromancer could be something interesting, especially with Emerald + PF + hospitals and lowering some of the negative attributes. Hybrids aren't terrible at all if you have the right combo and don't allocate too many resources to thief/wiz. You're suffering from tunnel vision.

I didn't think of Zephyrs having ToG/FoK. That makes em not so bad, but can only be heavy attackers. With that, the only actually terrible combinations involve Formoreans or Warrior.