Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 45 of 45

Thread: Virtual Kingdom, Age 62 ~ Tannhauser Requiem

  1. #31
    Needs to get out more
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Oh
    Posts
    8,976
    I've finally had time to review your Virtual Kingdom, smercjd. I enjoy seeing player interpretations and have included builds that I noticed enthusiastic players enjoy. I respect math, but I'd rather have a player run what they want as long as kingdom interest is accounted for.

    I notice you went with human mystic; I'm a fan of the spell distribution of this build. I think it has tons of utility. Prior to this ages mystic and rogue boosts I was a big fan of elf cleric. This is a particularly tough build that fit my style almost to a T. You really want plague to be under control, but otherwise it was the best zone/relay tap build in the game. Elf cleric thrives on guard stations in my setup. The army alone is freaky in sustainability. Add in decent spell resistance and you could trade shots with anyone.

    Also previous to mystic and rogue boost, the halfling war hero was pretty tough. Even now with an identity for the task at hand they have superior elites to do well.
    I like your inclusion of avian rogue as a nod to player enthusiasm. Active players with extra stealth and the ability to use it can be pretty tough on enemy soft targets, especially when augmented with appropriate attacking. The speed is the secret in the sauce to my mind. This is a build that can get into action quickly, can pull off learn attacks to remain relevant, and the extra stealth with science boost offers a great ability to adapt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

  2. #32
    Needs to get out more
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Oh
    Posts
    8,976
    Virtual Kingdom Edit:

    After some long thought on the alignment I've decided to switch our 25th province.

    ~ Human Mystic - Triskelion Plaza Deluxe {M} ~

    The reason for the switch from cleric to mystic was to bolster the Vurtual Kingdoms effectiveness in hostile, offer a viable outlet for human spell duration while retaining a dual threat province that's space efficient.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

  3. #33
    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Oviedo, FL
    Posts
    1,163
    Quote Originally Posted by StratOcastle View Post
    Virtual Kingdom Edit:

    After some long thought on the alignment I've decided to switch our 25th province.

    ~ Human Mystic - Triskelion Plaza Deluxe {M} ~

    The reason for the switch from cleric to mystic was to bolster the Vurtual Kingdoms effectiveness in hostile, offer a viable outlet for human spell duration while retaining a dual threat province that's space efficient.
    YAY! :D
    Human Mystic seems so fun!

  4. #34
    Moderator for:
    Utopia Forums
    Palem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    22,030
    Mystic is weak on human

  5. #35
    Needs to get out more
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Oh
    Posts
    8,976
    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    Mystic is weak on human
    Indeed, but there's a kingdom strategy involved. Chastity is what we're looking for here. The Virtual Kingdom balance requires different strategies: we can look at the core battle as our main objective. This template has the potential to assassinate wizards on soft targets. ~ And you're always welcome to submit your ideas from 1 to all 25 provinces. ~

    What we'd like to do is chain avoidance by massive clamp tactics. Most organized kingdoms have a uniform core that can be devastating straight up. We would war straight up, but the echelon of different personalities are used to maximize benefit. War heroes to create net worth barriers via war spoils. Tacticians shock assault enemies that violates the net worth zone. Clerics stand at net worth center by strategic alignment with warriors stretching the zone either near the top or from the bottom. We want our flexibility to allow us to dig out our chained.

    This doesn't mean we avoid the obvious. If a kingdoms top is truly the danger then we are set to take down powerful provinces. We have the tools as stated in previous posts. We simply want to retain a high degree of health across the entire kingdom. Giving acres to cows, as it were, isn't so disconcerting here. We don't have to, but this isn't designed as a top kingdom contender. It's first mission is a fun template, but it can hammer. In summary, we aren't expecting to defeat top kingdoms in war but we can make withdrawal a wise decision. Despite the limits here I like to watch AMAs process of acre retention. So for me, the deal break/FPA age is worthwhile study.

    In all things said here, my advice is to approach this as a muse. If this template gets you thinking that I'm wrong then you can imagine strategy. Convention works because everyone does it, not because it's optimal. Oh, it's logistically sound but it's also predictable. The zero core allows us to operate in an unpredictable way. My strategic ramblings don't scratch the surface of the myriad of possibilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

  6. #36
    Needs to get out more
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Oh
    Posts
    8,976
    The Palem Gambit:

    We're here to be welcoming to alternative ideas. We could place a Faery War Hero in the 25th position.

    25) faery war hero
    25) human mystic
    25) orc merchant

    We can adapt strategies to what we place in the 25th position. When you look at war hero I'd refer you to the function of the wishbone offense in football. With the understanding of the read option we can decide where to launch war spoils based on enemy reaction.

    The orc merchant simply retains a tree of gold in kingdom while pushing a very effective elite. As you can see with the bias allotted the 25th position, we can change quite a bit in kingdom performance in different ways. The beauty of the orc merchant is its ability to plug'n'play. There's no prep work necessary and the build is ready where the rubber meets the road.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

  7. #37
    Needs to get out more
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Oh
    Posts
    8,976
    Strategic Deployment:

    The recent war between Beastblood and Cromulent Republic brings up the idea of strategic interpretation. How do we convey to others what we see in our minds? I don't have that answer. But I can try to express an aspect of my strategic thinking with the charms of the Virtual Kingdom. Zones.

    Top NW Zone
    ^
    . Mystic - *
    . Sage - *

    . Warrior - is the scope of your offensive reach. Warrior is the beginning and the end of chains. Therefore, this zone strategy has it's integrity based in the health of the Warrior. The traditional builds should suffice.

    . Cleric - is the center of zone control. Cleric is the dominant force in the zone requiring activity at high intervals. Net worth retention is the focus. Therefore, you're likely to relay tap your attacks and your build is heavy in Guard Stations.

    . War Hero - establishes the zone via war spoils. This is the trigger for the zone chain. Upon war spoil gains the zone is cleared to keep retaliation out of ideal ranges.

    . Tactician - is theater control. That is, the responsibility to sweep enemies from the zone falls on the shoulders of the tactician. The tactician isn't alone, but it's her focus to keep enemies from engaging the integral operation of the zone.

    . Merchant - *
    . Rogue - *
    v
    Bottom NW Zone

    * the remaining personalities are by no means an afterthought despite me commenting on them last. The zone is heavily influenced by either it's defense of the economy/ops/sabotage or it's advantage. The zone may be specifically aimed around a kingdom mystic in a lower net worth tier in order to derail enemy aggression. Since the Virtual Kingdom has at all times 3 war heroes we can run the zone offense in concentration or in 3 separate pockets; high, low and middle. As provinces may end up chained a replacement from the various tiers can take their place. Each province should know their primary, secondary and tertiary roles to seamlessly move as war rages.

    Mystic, rogue and sage personalities will weigh heavily in targeting. Once breached by any of the focal peripherals ( ops/sabotage ) the rest follow up. My faith in strategy begins with the highest penetrating virtue to create a beachhead for the rest. Thus my stand on Amnesia, Nightmares and Tornadoes are part of Assassinate Wizards etc. We want to bring as many weapons as we can to bare on enemies of the kingdom. The elf, halfling and orc all hold a special place as spearhead builds in mystic, rogue and warrior. Once the enemy WPA is lowered we can then unleash the shotgun like ops of faery and dwarf. Same goes for faery and avian to sabotage after halfling rogues. The merchant is pure logistics. They pick up anywhere the ball drops.

    I hope you can better understand one aspect of strategy in the Virtual Kingdom. The point isn't that we agree on strategy, it's to expand the conversation within ourselves. this is only one example. Thank you for your time.
    Last edited by StratOcastle; 09-08-2014 at 16:20.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

  8. #38
    Needs to get out more
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Oh
    Posts
    8,976
    Taking On Sages:

    In an age where sages are particularly tough, though mildly nerfed by the science boost to mystics and rogues, we might see the heavy attacker left for dead. This has more to do with a dependence on uniform cores and, IMHO, the shunning of rainbow kingdom strategy builds. Now this could be done with uniform speed, but there then are other challenges the kingdom may face where other attributes would serve better.

    The secret to engaging sages is in the kingdom build. Though this is the Virtual Kingdom I copy strategies here and experiment with them in game. You must concentrate unfettered abilities against sages. Speed is the strength of certain tacticians and only leverage in others. Dwarf, and to a greater degree avian, have what amounts to certain unstoppable abilities as tacticians. Dwarves have speed on tap and mystic aura. Avians simply have pure speed. These are in the category of things you can't overcome with science. Mystic aura is an auto-stop spell. Tacticians also get the clear sight spell. While this falls into the measurable it puts you on competitive ground if your acreage isn't forcing you too thin.

    Plague by undead, war spoils by war heroes, the kill ratio of orcs, elven and undead durability, and cleric durability are additional areas that aren't in the sage wheelhouse. sure this stuff works everywhere, but I think the world maybe needed clarification on this subject.

    We all know the weaknesses in combating sages. We know they present challenges to hybrids and are more difficult to deal with by pure t/ms. If we screw around with equivalent waving we certainly give ground to sage. You can't let their science dictate battle. We all have the chance to build what we want beginning of age. Im in my third build this age and have encountered sages in 2 wars. The last was the true experiment: dwarf tac with very little science vs mid-age sages. I'm here to tell you that the non-science based elements are where you stand your ground. Sages have venues to hurt non-sages, but there are answers.

    You may ask, what did I do? Well I did what you ought to do as dwarf tactician. I used quick feet as much as possible on attacks. I hit out of range to stay close to the sages I was combating and this kept me from getting land fat: a dangerous thing to be around sages.
    I kept mystic aura and clear sight up as much as possible. You don't want mystic aura knocked down and have the enemy lightning strike your rune cache. You need a rune cache.
    I kept my thieves in for intel. I couldn't afford to suffer a poor Thieves Per Acre(TPA) to allow sages to use their thieving science. As a dwarf you must maintain a food supply as well, and defense specialists.
    I find activity is always key on a personal basis. You want to recast mystic aura when it gets knocked down, not come back later to find a page full of enemy spells.
    This brings me back to theater control. The dwarf tactician is a good candidate for the job of tending(not dominating. This falls to the cleric) to a net worth zone. My job was not to serve up cheap acres to myself but to occupy a dangerous pair of sages among other threats. You don't want them digging their claws into your vulnerable land fat provinces. These are your victory provinces and it's theater controls responsibility to force attention away from them and onto yourself.

    Thank you for your viewing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

  9. #39
    Needs to get out more
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Oh
    Posts
    8,976
    Avian Superiority:

    We've just entered an End of War Cease Fire (EOWCF) and I had a good look at a matchup that satisfied my belief that avian was underrated; in fact, superior.
    The elements of proof in the equation:

    A) StratOcastle dwarf tactician 47/50* the first number is my attacks and the second is attacks absorbed.
    B) My Nemesis avian cleric 35/43

    The reason I site this particular avian is because we exchanged a great number of attacks. This was a solid player who's only mistakes were releasing too many thieves and never doing alternative attacks to traditional march. Had this player had a nominal level of thieves per acre and if this player had razed, massacred or learned my province I may not have been on the winning side.
    Just like sparring in martial arts, we must understand when our opponent has opted not to hurt us. Even as a tactician with the quick feet spell I was outrun. The fact is I did run out of runes and lost my ability to cast reliably because my guilds were largely destroyed. Because the avian achieved speed supremacy they had the opportunity to launch alternative attacks without suffering equivalent retaliation. Remember these alternative attacks move faster than traditional march.

    This avian, like most of the enemy chained, released too many thieves. We were sending sapphire dragons all war which exacerbated a lack of thieves for defense. To reflect, if these chained had retained thieves at the same level (or close) then my ability to gather intel and steal resources would've been in serious question. Obviously I would've been forced to use more stealth and my thief losses would've been higher.

    In summary, had these avians played unfettered or perhaps been more experienced they would've cut my province and much of our chained down to practical uselessness. Had they achieved crushing us, which was readily in their grasp, they could've continued to have chains fed down and decimated our core. This experience was something I was aware of as I've played avian, but I needed to see this from the closest speed demon perspective, the dwarf tactician. I can now say with complete confidence that the avian in the Virtual Kingdom are integral to the core. In war, avian is superior to dwarf.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

  10. #40
    Needs to get out more
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Oh
    Posts
    8,976
    Undead Cleric. The Dirty Work:

    Scanning kingdom pages can sometimes reveal things we know but never prepare for. Having an undead cleric around can be quite an asset. You ever retaliate a random attack to see your elites are taking an expensive toll? Well I have, being a dwarf tactician this age.

    I've spent quite a lot of time running undead cleric and I have to tell you they are invaluable in some very unromantic and utilitarian ways. If you allow the undead cleric to retaliate for those with more expensive and fragile elites it can be an economically wise choice.

    In getting back to my observance of kingdom pages, you can see when a kingdom is razing an inactive. In the case observed it was an inactive undead. The undead cleric can't do it alone, but if you allow, can be the finisher. Not only will the plague not effect them they also take less casualties.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Whenever you see apparently efficient kingdom builds just remind yourself of the little things pointed out in these pages. Is the efficiency accomplishing it's mission? Is it flexible? How much is gained vs how good are the players and strategy?
    I always hear that they build such a way because it is better, but in my evaluations this is generally not the case. Look at the top. Are dwarves better than humans? We just warred avians and I can tell you that a well run avian is superior to a well run dwarf in war.

    The truth is simple. It fits a vision. Nothing more, nothing less. Last age it was Beast Blood with Orc Core that won the crown. Were orcs the best? We have changes this age that ramp up mystic, rogue and sage but it's not as apparent in game. People say things and we buy into them. They support their view with static math.
    Look. When you challenge these "efficiencies" with something like speed they suddenly have no answers. It's just that nobody is running avians because of some static math they bought into. Herd mentality is the easiest way to guarantee the rigidity of the top. I don't mind the top being there, but I find players that hang onto their every word don't understand misdirection.

    I'm the last to instruct or advocate avian core. I don't mind repeating, the Virtual Kingdom has no core. Every race has exploitable weakness and leverage strength. This kingdom template is a toolbox. Because I travel and transform from one build to another, and face this same plethora of builds I can assess the actual value of these things firsthand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

  11. #41
    Forum Addict makeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    synchronicity wave.
    Posts
    1,133
    What I find amusing about all this theory crafting is that strat0 has never won or run a war. :)
    I agree with him that tactical ability to think on your feet matters more than blind obedience to a dogmatic strategy.

    What I feel he misses is that long term math strats beats tactical plays if people are experienced and can also pull the tactical plays.

    Tl:Dr. Strat0; The decent kids can utilise tactics as well as.math. As long as you dismiss math as " witchy weird ****" and they dismiss tactics.as " witchy weird ****" there will always be a niche for the smart ghetto player
    :)

  12. #42
    Forum Addict makeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    synchronicity wave.
    Posts
    1,133
    Show me more!
    Last edited by makeo; 12-09-2014 at 07:40.

  13. #43
    Needs to get out more
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Oh
    Posts
    8,976
    @ makeo

    This is why we're in roleplaying ;-)

    ~ If you know me by reading then you know me by nuance ~

    Math is wonderful, but it isn't the end all. Monsoor and Realist are the fly in the ointment. So is tetley and company in Jerks to a degree.

    The short version is this: when a creative, intuitive leader applies effort to win a crown they do. If you're not asking why(?) you're not an intuitive person.
    The mechanical thinkers will enjoy their crowns vs other less mechanical thinkers so long as no creative intuitive leaders come along.
    Tell me about the mechanical superiority of Jerks when they crowned or SWEA when they crowned?
    I'm no leader, but I am intuitive which means I imagine the answer eludes. I know why Monsoor won the crown. The mechanical thinkers don't know what it was so they discount the value of the SWEA crown.
    In Jerks case you need look no further than avian. This is not why the won, but it is what sealed the legitimacy of their crown in my eyes.

    Mechanical thinkers are admired on my part; I know the game is more refined for their effort. We need to accept each other to achieve the highest goals in Utopia.
    Realest may not know why he requires a B2B champion to come out of retirement, but I know why.
    Last edited by StratOcastle; 12-09-2014 at 21:40.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

  14. #44
    Needs to get out more
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Oh
    Posts
    8,976
    Virtual Roleplaying:

    In a previous Virtual Kingdom I offered the perspective of roleplaying. The reason I think it could work in the Virtual Kingdom is because we do things by division. This would be akin to adventuring parties in D&D.
    Consider one division:

    Avian Tactician - defender/striker
    Dwarf Merchant - defender
    Elf Mystic - striker
    Faery Sage - controller
    Halfling Rogue - striker
    Human War Hero - defender
    Orc Warrior - striker
    Undead Cleric - defender

    This is only an example, but we could see the interaction of these different provinces in the guise of pirates, cyberpunks, a feudal Japanese war party, etc. The Virtual Kingdom thus could function efficiently with the other 2 divisions even if they chose no roleplaying. If we wanted to conceive a dimension-door/time-machine bringing differing cultures together we could do a whole kingdom with an ideal setting for a number of players that would enjoy this style. Are there 25 such players in the game?

    The reason I define the roles in the example above ^ is to demonstrate clarity that we can be an effective kingdom while also enjoying the aspect of roleplaying. Roles would work as the D&D personalities. Defenders would guard the softer personalities, strikers would attack the enemies we engage and the controller would both hamper enemies and aid/bolster areas of need. We'd have decent spread of Tree of Gold, speed, and essential defense. One working in concert with all. The job of the council member as related to the kingdom would be to pool resources vs a common threat.

    The Virtual Kingdom of course has a Monarch that oversees the entirety of kingdom function and also functions as a bolstering element to a division in need. In summary we potentially have 3 divisions to choose a roleplaying culture we are most comfortable with. While this system may not be as efficient as vanilla waves I think this holds a superior edge in player retention and defends crucial provinces. This means The Virtual Kingdom can tangle with quality opponents and continue on without the age being ruined by Thief and Mages being chained inoperable. One hand washes the other. Ideally this system can potentially stall chains which is an important aspect to kingdom health and morale.

    Thank you for your time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

  15. #45
    Needs to get out more
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Oh
    Posts
    8,976
    The Avian Tactician - Defender/Striker:

    I wanted to define this because it may come to some misunderstanding why the Avian Tactician has a split role. In the strategy above the aspects of defender and striker refers to the normal engagements each province so defined is likely to face. The Avian Tactician role is variable on the tactics of the division. As an example, if the Human War Hero attacks with War Spoils and it opens a net worth bubble the Avian Tactician can assume the role of striker to widen the gap or defender to push net worth equivalence away from the vulnerable Human War Hero while the empty acres are fortified. The Avian Tactician is especially good at tearing down enemy attackers quickly and thus can strike in a narrower field than Elf, Halfling or Orc. The Orc Warrior is relatable to the D&D personality of Barbarian.

    In D&D, as some strategies parallel in Utopia, is the idea of knocking out the controllers and strikers first. In my D&D party it was our Paladin, a defender, who actually engaged the biggest single threat. This was more an act of personal roleplaying than strategically optimal. Still this is common in Utopia as we are all use to seeing common personalities/race in their cores. Their defacto Paladin is the biggest guy or the one with the best position to engage.
    So we aren't defined by this strategy, we simply list which is the most effective at doing a given job, all things equal.

    Seeing The Field:

    Utopia has in large part degenerated to a top based warring scheme. This isn't wrong, but we basically concern ourselves with the strength of our top and let our chained slog in the mud. My stand is we should attempt to avoid this in war. What can and can't be controlled is a matter of conjecture.

    The teaching and learning in The Virtual Kingdom is broken into divisions. This segmented control zone may help some see the field of battle in microcosm. Observing the field, knowing the goals and executing within that frame can lend a feeling of belonging that might be lost in generic top control strategies.

    Thus a student of field tactics can observe other divisions. They can see their unique approach and learn, offer advice or strategically lend a hand. There may be times to adopt different blended strategies. There are no absolutes just as there is no core here. But we do these things for exploration of the game. Failure is always a possibility and these are the times where a humble attitude can learn a lot.

    You may learn to dislike the culture here as you're want to be part of a unified core. This isn't offensive in the least bit, but understand: The Virtual Kingdom is a culture. It's heritage is in it's many facets of persona/race. To change this aspect is to abandon it's culture. So if your a soldier of marching in phalanx you wouldn't find a home here. I would urge that you study the lattice of performance here and try to take something with you.
    Last edited by StratOcastle; 23-09-2014 at 01:16.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •