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Thread: Utopia Wiki Questions, Corrections & Updates

  1. #121
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    I think I see where the additive comes into play...
    But assuming as the birthrate is a constant and assuming L&P is another constant additive to birthrate
    It should be able to be displayed as a ratio (BR "+" L&P)/BR which should translate to a clean %...

    Yes I know that is pulled from the wiki... but the ONLY way I can think of where it "might" make a different change it to change some positions so that it reads

    Peasants Hourly Change = (Current Peasants - Storms - Drafted Soldiers - Wizards Trained) * (Birth Rate + Love & Peace) * Homes Bonus * Chastity

    I was thinking that the wiki equation was treating changes as what "would" happen in the next tick...
    As opposed what last ticks effectes "were"...
    But I am still seeing the same result again...

    Only difference I see now us that BR is a "variable" constant of .0205 X (.95 through 1.05) and L&P "ADDS" and hard constant of .0085 to the "variable" constant.
    Which (comparable to ToG's 40 - 80%) would introduce a range of % of improvment of about 39.5% - 43.7% increase (depending on the random 5%)

  2. #122
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    Whilst we are on this point, the BR formula in the wiki is missing ritual and EoW CF.

    These might also help with working out if it's + or x as above (although it depends where there operate in the formula - ie whether they are changing the base BR or the just an additional multiplication outside the brackets).

  3. #123
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    I still struggle to see the value of this %s thing as a comparative tool. Most of them don't compare to each other well at all, and the ones that do its fairly easy to tell which is numerically superior however you present 5 vs 10% or 80% vs 120% ...

    You could be onto something with the variable constant of BRs RNG, vs the flat rate of L&P as for reasoning on the 0.85% vs +41.5% as its effect.

    This is how I would calc BR (not peasant change, so no draft or wiz removed)

    BR = Peasants * ({[IF(UtoDate="YR0",0.0305,0.0205) * RANDBETWEEN(950,1050)/1000) + IF(L&P="Yes",0.0085,0)] * (1 + Homes effect) * Chastity?} - Storms?) * Overpop? * EoWCF * Ritual * Race * Plague

    ... for peasant change the overpop is a bit more complicated than just * 1 or 0, of course, along with draft and wizards trained.

  4. #124
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    What I was thinking was that while yes most arent compareable on there own but i was starting to think ahead to next age already and I wanted to try to get a clearer picture of what race/pers/buildings/spells stack/work in tandem for the highest %'s

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoBDuDe View Post
    What I was thinking was that while yes most arent compareable on there own but i was starting to think ahead to next age already and I wanted to try to get a clearer picture of what race/pers/buildings/spells stack/work in tandem for the highest %'s
    I don't really get it either because most of the spells do different things so won't be stacking with other spells anyway. I appreciate they stack with other things, but I'm not sure how it helps to be able to sort spell %s to look at that.

  6. #126
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    I see it as comparing Elite/spec numbers and net, thief/magic bonuses (also taking into account the fact that thief and wizzard net values are the lowest and static (not inflated by effeciencies)), building % improvments... etc...

    Sure they are all various effects and %'s but most EVERYONE still compares them to pick race/pers/builds/strats...

    You have to look at them as a whole in the terms that Utopia handles them in order to assign value VS other bonuses/values that may not be directly related to eachother.

    Take CS for example... Outside of WT it has almost no compareable value but the fact that it automatically stops 1/4 of thief ops makes it topic of disscusion every age as to whether it should be a race/pers bonus... where it should be an attacker/mage spell for its intended purpose of def against thiefs or a thievery based race/pers spell to make them that much more specialized role...

    are they one off spells/ops or will they stack/augment certain roles...

    These go for (Insofar racial only) negative stats as well... Will it be a heavy attacker/thief/mage age...

    Does a elites/specs strength or value or cost outweigh a rogue's TD or stealth bonus? or magics ability to always be available when chained?

    At face value they are incompareable but when you look at them as a whole there are clear trade offs...

    There is a reason why we are rotating/tweaking values/races/pers because as much as we love balance... with a variety of races/pers/bonus/spells/ops there will always be more powerful values/combinations (stackable/augments) than others...

    Whether it is a nerf or boon... it generally happens for a reason... and that is mostly from generally non-comparable values that are clearly OP or underpowered...

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