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Thread: rate the races age 62 edition

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by noobium View Post
    Perhaps "quite easily" is too much, but it is not as invulnerable as it seems, and it was done twice against supposedly good kingdoms last age when human was (in my view) better than it is this age relative to the competition. This age we have beaten human-heavy kingdoms, though they weren't top-tier kingdoms. Kill the human's pezzies and they can't use two of their best abilities, and they don't have the sustainability or offensive bonuses of many other races. It is probably best if you can catch humans off-guard, rather than wait for the humans to full-pump... letting a human choose the time and place of battle is quite suicidal if the humans are doing it right.
    A top warring tier mixed human/faery KD would make it so that they can't be as easily FBed/MSed (5+ rwpa) and have medium tpa (3) with high WT. Magic defense is human's biggest weakness so I would personally play hu/sage in that way, unless there is some way to directly destroy mystics soon after war starts so that you can set them up to A/t instead. Saph dragons, NM waves up the asshole and turtle central. It's hard to really bust that kind of setup and tbh I doubt any KD would war it if played to its fullest potential. Biggest problem is probably when the hu/sage bloats and wpa drops substantially, but that's the problem with every attacker so not much way around it.
    Last edited by Nightmare_; 28-09-2014 at 16:02.

  2. #92
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    That's why you never let the humans pump to 5wpa... or preferably don't let them pump at all :) Take any fully pumped kingdom with lots of humans are if they're doing things competently, they're likely going to stomp the opposition or at least hold on for an ungodly amount of time.

  3. #93
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    1. Humans - nice rework on them, I found them extremely tanky but still with good off.
    2. Elves - even with the small nerf I think they are the best dragon killer in the game.
    3. Faeries.
    4. Undeads - the convert in war is rly awesome and they can get/sustain off really good.
    5. Dwarfs - dont like the food penalty, but they are good tho.
    6. Halfers - at last 5 def :D.... but crappy NW...
    7. Orcs - think they should be reworked. With humans and dwarfs being so tanky 1 def point is crap.
    8. Avians - they are still in the game?!

  4. #94
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    I still see orcs and avians as playeresque choices. I've finally played orcs this age; warrior twice and I can understand the groove here. I remember a few oow orc aces who were good at finding targets, but they all seemed allergic to proper war fighting. Me, I find their battle worthiness very relaxing. Guys always spout some statistics, but I've run over sages like opossums and was fighting 2 undead at once in our last war.

    As for avians if you face a player, and I mean a player, who knows how to use them it's an experience in pressure. I ran across a couple who didn't have their whole game together, but they did have the activity. It's boss. Yeah, humans great while tank status is in session, but let the orcs break him to get in avian circles and it's Oh My. I faced them as a dwarf and I had speed. Im tempted next age, all things equal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
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  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by StratOcastle View Post
    I still see orcs and avians as playeresque choices. I've finally played orcs this age; warrior twice and I can understand the groove here. I remember a few oow orc aces who were good at finding targets, but they all seemed allergic to proper war fighting. Me, I find their battle worthiness very relaxing. Guys always spout some statistics, but I've run over sages like opossums and was fighting 2 undead at once in our last war.

    As for avians if you face a player, and I mean a player, who knows how to use them it's an experience in pressure. I ran across a couple who didn't have their whole game together, but they did have the activity. It's boss. Yeah, humans great while tank status is in session, but let the orcs break him to get in avian circles and it's Oh My. I faced them as a dwarf and I had speed. Im tempted next age, all things equal.
    You've been raving about avian for a while strat0 and I think you have a really good point (we have an avian tactician in the KD who is just unstoppable).
    But...they sacrifice too much -- and if a smart KD knows what to do - they'll just let the avian grow and FB him out :/ The point is to NOT duel w the avian unless you're going to deep chain him as soon as his army's out OR hitting him w armies in.

    However! I found a reaaaaaaally good use for Avian that, if played right, could've DOMINATED this age. I'll share with you in PM or something cause they might not change :p

    I don't particularly enjoy the idea for the whole KD cause it might be a bit boring...but man it'd be insane.

  6. #96
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    Avians now suck. Give em back -35% attsck time and ill run em next age :)

  7. #97
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    The choice to duel the avian was fun but also of necessity. Below the avian cleric in nw was an avian tac. We both had goals which included keeping ourselves up and working ourselves into chaining the next victim.

    As stated before the avian is not a balloon unless you only trad march. I guess it's hard for non-avian aficionados to understand the diversity of attacks is what compounds the danger of the build. It's the incapability of other races to match an avians turn around to achieve a free unique that sets it apart. We all know the changes made to certain attacks this age. Use your imagination.

    There are instances the greater community misreads a strat because they reflect on static logistics. Speed changes all that. I'd say the developers have seemingly weakened avian, but a closer look would reveal otherwise. You must understand I faced many sages this age and I was smart enough to cover my flanks as a dwarf tac. There was no hiding from the avian. As mentioned before, my exchange in this war was 47/50 attacks. My survival earned me 63 acres. And this avian wasn't even run optimally.

    BoH told us about his encounter with an avian warrior. Results speak louder than calculators. Calculators mutter a lot of stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

  8. #98
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    avian is decent (but still weak) if you use the speed bonus for smart things instead of silly things. most kingdoms don't have the sense to make attack speed work for them, especially if they're of the mindset that moar hits = moar win. the speed isn't good for making more (bad) hits, the speed is for making hits that are impractical for everyone else. avian as core just gets dominated as they can't compete against turtles or humans, even with perfect use of fana and a fairly good science advantage.

    avian is still near bottom tier, though this age undead is worse. undead is just the nut low, only plague (barely) saves them. what use are conversions just to get to the level other races reach by pumping alone?

  9. #99
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    see I understand all the hate Avians are getting... but I am playing avian this age (rogue) Hybrid, running 45-48 dpa and 40 OPA, I have 8-10 mod tpa. I am keeping highest uniques in our wars (we are 3/4), I am holding in top 10 for honor amongst avians and tat with out a war for 2 weeks to gain honor.. I am keeping myself alive with kidnaps while targeting our fb targets so that my ops are not just being thrown away.. and i am having 8 hour attack times. I do massacre runs on my own as I don't have a high enough offence to be focused down. and if i do get focused my tpa shoots through the roof as I just hit for land. avians do have their use..

    sorry i just felt the need to defend my second favorite race :3

  10. #100
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    av/rogue is not very good though, because your defense is always shaky. one landchain or massacre wave and you're neutered. now if you have several such provinces, not all of them can be controlled, but enough of them will be. targetting av/rogue (or any avian) with fireballs is generally a bad play, because avian has a known preference towards thievery, kidnaps, and massacre (and if you're ever a massive fireball target as avian, you know you're unlikely to suffer a landchain). ultimately though avian/rogue has a hard time using rogue's signature ops, and if your rogues aren't doing that then you could just as well play a thief role on another personality.

    40 OPA is not enough to be a truly convincing attacker (nor is 50 dpa useful for defending much of anything). You can however put up something like 80opa/60dpa with the right buildings and a high draft rate, but you need good housing+military sci to pull it off (and probably want good everything to make it really worthwhile).

    one thing to avian's credit is that, unlike the other pure attacker races, avian can expect to play a/t/m a lot better, and they have the ability to get really good science - maybe even the best out of all races. human and dwarf are better at keeping science, but avians extract it so fast if they are willing to vulture or take risks for it. i'd be going for mil/crime/channeling all the way - you have the whole server to feed you econ science past year 2 or so, and your base economy is fairly bad anyway unless picking merchant.

  11. #101
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    I went rogue because of teh +100% science boost. my tpa sky rockets for no reason because of the science.. i do not care for the ops. I NS/kidnap. I was fireball chained one war, and i always kidnaped back. never had an issue. I was land raped the one war. came back, and was up on land/honor from where i started. I mean I guess i could have done that with ANY race since i am active enough.. I just don't like all the hate they are getting when i find them so much fun =P

  12. #102
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    Excuse me, but who are you massacring with 40 OPA? unless you are one of the largest attackers in your KD you won't even be able to massacre many humans humans and some dwarfs. Running a province for massacring mainly UD and orcs just doesn't seem to be worth it.
    In case you are one of the largest attackers in your KD than you'll be able to massacre more useful targets, but still not T/M. However the trade off is that you're automatically eliminating the threat an 100 OPA attacker in your spot would have posed to the enemies would be UB's. Making it so much easier for the enemy KD to actually make their T/M UB's and push the enemies turtles farther into semi- UB state.

  13. #103
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    Tbh I think it's easily possible to run way higher numbers than that on an AV-Rogue. Once you have 200% sci, you only need 2.5 rTPA to pull of that 8-10 mod tpa. That means you can easily run 40 dpa 80 opa. But if I were AV/Rogue I'd run way higher tpa (at least 20).

  14. #104
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    It's the end of the age and if this avian rogue had a good time then bravo. You think maybe he's part of a kingdom that used team work to make 40 OPA cool to roll with? There's this spell called Nightmare and another thing called Nightstrike and another thing called chaining. No offense guys, but your stating an argument with static math vs the organic experience of a happy player.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

  15. #105
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    so. i typoed i meant 50 opa. and it is a very team oriented fight. I typically land grab the first 1-3 hits and than by that point there are either low targets that need razing. or a t/m has been worked enough i can run massacres. and i rarely get target because of bigger threats. it works for us. but i do agree that any other race (undead or orc) could have easily done the same thing. but the attack speed boost let me hit 16-20 uniques ina 5 day war. and with the train time of avian i can easily just keep my offence up and hit continuesly on 6 hour hit times. (5 hour if its massacre)

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