PewPew vs Pyro

[Persain]

yes, im talking about base gains. 2% difference in base land gains translate into is like 20-25% difference in land actually taken. thats enough of an acre change to easily track if you're hitting an in nw range attacker.

[Bishop]

it's easy to figure out if its -15 or -33%, just look at hits. 10% gains =-15%. 8% gains=-33%. next time my kds at war i'll have us test it

dragon('EMERALD')
gainsfactor *= 0.85

[jjofdenmark]

Thank you very much Bishop!!!

[munk]

So has pew2 wrongly accounted for GS/GBP - or what is the deal here?

[Retard`]

The guy had no GS.

Their gains were HUGE and our gains were tiny.

I'll have someone post evidence.

[Petrified]

The bug was so massive that it's extremely clear to anyone who understands gains and just takes one look at news, but for those not watching here is the experiment I did 16h ago when we had the emerald.

Facts:
One dwarf bank trad marching another one. War. 2% networth difference between them. Defending province has 12.8% GS with 82% BE. Both of these values came from 100% accurate SOT and survey taken right before the attack. Anonymity was used on the attack. No + or - hours were used. Attacker was under effect of emerald dragon. Resulting attack took 5.99% of the defender's land (265 acres from 4424).

Simple calculations:
12% (base gains, perfect networth range) * 1.1 (war gains bonus) * 0.85 (anonymity penalty) * 0.817 (GS penalty) = 9.16% expected gain without accounting for the emerald.

5.99% was the real acre gain on the hit, so the emerald dragon caused a 34.6% gains penalty instead of 15%. It nearly tripled the gains penalty from the dragon. As soon as the emerald dragon was replaced with sapphire, the gains reverted to 100% accurately reflecting my above formula.

The 35% gains penalty affected every single attack from our side while the emerald dragon was on us. A simple s/n shows hundreds of hits ALL for less than 10% gains while the drake was on us. Dozens of hits on their bank all taking 6-8% land. I am not going to bother explaining the implications of having an additional -23% kd-wide gains penalty due to a bug, especially in a bank fight where the opponent is constantly fighting overpopulation effects. It turned a guaranteed pyro farmout on every single level by mintime into something even.

I personally quit yesterday because I do not see the point of spending my time and efforts just to have them invalidated by a game breaking bug. This isn't the first or last horrible bug either. The worst part about it all is that Bishop's default stance is to simply deny everything as he did above. His strategy usually works for him too because most bugs can't be proven as clearly as this one.

Best of luck to all.

[Nathz]

why quit so early? Will that explains a cow starving yesterday?
33hrs in war After 3rd uniques
War Only
** The kingdom of Pyro **
Total land exchanged: +2,797 (162/183)
Uniques: 63
** The kingdom of PooPoo **
Total land exchanged: -2,797 (183/162)
Uniques: 60
Both Kd are dragon free.
Both KD are impressive.

Good Job Bug
<~NesTa13> the bug is called nesta

[Bishop]

The bug was so massive that it's extremely clear to anyone who understands gains and just takes one look at news, but for those not watching here is the experiment I did 16h ago when we had the emerald.

Facts:
One dwarf bank trad marching another one. War. 2% networth difference between them. Defending province has 12.8% GS with 82% BE. Both of these values came from 100% accurate SOT and survey taken right before the attack. Anonymity was used on the attack. No + or - hours were used. Attacker was under effect of emerald dragon. Resulting attack took 5.99% of the defender's land (265 acres from 4424).

Simple calculations:
12% (base gains, perfect networth range) * 1.1 (war gains bonus) * 0.85 (anonymity penalty) * 0.817 (GS penalty) = 9.16% expected gain without accounting for the emerald.

5.99% was the real acre gain on the hit, so the emerald dragon caused a 34.6% gains penalty instead of 15%. It nearly tripled the gains penalty from the dragon. As soon as the emerald dragon was replaced with sapphire, the gains reverted to 100% accurately reflecting my above formula.

The 35% gains penalty affected every single attack from our side while the emerald dragon was on us. A simple s/n shows hundreds of hits ALL for less than 10% gains while the drake was on us. Dozens of hits on their bank all taking 6-8% land. I am not going to bother explaining the implications of having an additional -23% kd-wide gains penalty due to a bug, especially in a bank fight where the opponent is constantly fighting overpopulation effects. It turned a guaranteed pyro farmout on every single level by mintime into something even.

I personally quit yesterday because I do not see the point of spending my time and efforts just to have them invalidated by a game breaking bug. This isn't the first or last horrible bug either. The worst part about it all is that Bishop's default stance is to simply deny everything as he did above. His strategy usually works for him too because most bugs can't be proven as clearly as this one.

Best of luck to all.

No bug has been shown yet.

[Heiney]

Simple calculations:
12% (base gains, perfect networth range) * 1.1 (war gains bonus) * 0.85 (anonymity penalty) * 0.817 (GS penalty) = 9.16% expected gain without accounting for the emerald.

There should at least be some gbp no?

[Malogar]

The bug was so massive that it's extremely clear to anyone who understands gains and just takes one look at news, but for those not watching here is the experiment I did 16h ago when we had the emerald.

Facts:
One dwarf bank trad marching another one. War. 2% networth difference between them. Defending province has 12.8% GS with 82% BE. Both of these values came from 100% accurate SOT and survey taken right before the attack. Anonymity was used on the attack. No + or - hours were used. Attacker was under effect of emerald dragon. Resulting attack took 5.99% of the defender's land (265 acres from 4424).

Simple calculations:
12% (base gains, perfect networth range) * 1.1 (war gains bonus) * 0.85 (anonymity penalty) * 0.817 (GS penalty) = 9.16% expected gain without accounting for the emerald.

5.99% was the real acre gain on the hit, so the emerald dragon caused a 34.6% gains penalty instead of 15%. It nearly tripled the gains penalty from the dragon. As soon as the emerald dragon was replaced with sapphire, the gains reverted to 100% accurately reflecting my above formula.

The 35% gains penalty affected every single attack from our side while the emerald dragon was on us. A simple s/n shows hundreds of hits ALL for less than 10% gains while the drake was on us. Dozens of hits on their bank all taking 6-8% land. I am not going to bother explaining the implications of having an additional -23% kd-wide gains penalty due to a bug, especially in a bank fight where the opponent is constantly fighting overpopulation effects. It turned a guaranteed pyro farmout on every single level by mintime into something even.

I personally quit yesterday because I do not see the point of spending my time and efforts just to have them invalidated by a game breaking bug. This isn't the first or last horrible bug either. The worst part about it all is that Bishop's default stance is to simply deny everything as he did above. His strategy usually works for him too because most bugs can't be proven as clearly as this one.

Best of luck to all.

You forgot both NW diff and gbp....

If a 180k orc hits a 380k Human you cant expect very good gains

[munk]

So my 'calcs' would show 12% * 0.85 (anon) * 0.817 (GS) * 1.1 (WAR) = 9.16% 'base gains'

Adding emerald gives 9.16% * 0.85 = 7.79% gains.

GBP can take afaik -20% in war if moderately or more hit. This is 'phased' in so at start at war it could be higher?

Not knowing GBP values I would say I would expect the gains to be between 7% and 6.23% depending on GBP.

Could this be due to GBP?

[jjofdenmark]

So all in all, Petrified quit Utopia because he can't do math That is effing sad!!!

[Persain]

You forgot both NW diff and gbp....

If a 180k orc hits a 380k Human you cant expect very good gains

he very clearly said One dwarf bank trad marching another one. War. 2% networth difference between them.

either way i'll add tests

[Malogar]

he very clearly said One dwarf bank trad marching another one. War. 2% networth difference between them.

either way i'll add tests

Oh yes. But pew did some huge topfeeding with their orcs aswell.
I mix them up..

[goodz]

I thought in war GBP maxes at -40% or something? Not sure what level they were at.

TBH it sounds like without 1 way sapphire your cows die rapidly to ops so you're kinda dead if they send sapphire dragon on you or dead if they have emerald. So whats the diff