Human/Sage advice and tips

[StratOcastle]

Sadly...an avian tact would sacrifice a LOT of break the human at first...The whole build would have to be centered on TGs/Dungeons. This would likely end up worse than an orc v human...However, if the avian could manage to break the human or the human hit first -- the i think the avian could turn it around with the insanely fast AT

Precisely. Once you can lap the human you can learn, mass, raze to leverage the difference in basic efficiency. War build personalities are still viable in war. I'm seeing sages now that are dangerous, but I'm not a full blown war machine. I'd feel comfortable with Orc warrior vs human sage, but speed is unaccounted for in these human icons of efficiency. You just don't see them because consensus was avians are bad. - I've never supported avians as core, but core compliment. I think you can see how avian tac & orc warrior can tag team nicely.

[noobium]

av/tact (or any avian) as core just gets curbstomped. av/tact's greatest advantages are that they can use non-land attacks efficiently in war, and that their science acquisition is wtfgood if they can find the time to learn attack - made even better if science is taken off the very people the avian intends to war. avian does have to vulture a bit to get good, and that leads to a lot of pissed off people. the avians still need to be supported by stronger attackers and quality t/m work, though unlike orc they can expect to nightstrike targets if they play their cards right.

against human/sage, the avian/tact can narrowly hit a turtled human/sage in the right build, but the avian has to be well-pumped and basically needs to go heavy on homes (something avian should probably do anyway, give them good tg/hosps and schools when sci-hoarding and they're quite functional).
a little birdie told me that humans suck when they can't pump properly, and that avians have this nifty cheap elite and training time bonus.

[JuiceD]

This may serve 2 purposes - Giving some actual numbers for peoples unfamiliar with hummy sage numbers - *1400a 315k nw* hummy vs 1900a orc...

and for me

I am Looking for some additional build and army input / ideas..... I've been palying along time but never post in forums lol always browse.... Been experimenting with hummy sage myself this age.. always played avian previous 10 ages, and almost SOLELY attacker since age 4.. only played PURE tm probly less than 5 times.. LOL...and that was wayyy back.. but back to the point....



This is currently the thoughts bouncing around my head.... Build and army (should i go all leet?) are what i am looking for extra input on.... my build is not swapped over yet, so no ME mods otehr than sci and payrate.....I have decided to go to 100% elites or close too(not 100% sure myself lol).. but removed all info i could remember :p


MY nw / nwpa is currently SLIGHTLY lower than it should/will be as 10% of my land is in conversion - but generated survey as if built for numbers sake



Personality & Race: The Sage, Human
Land: 1,412 Acres
Money: 256,660gc (32,549gc daily income)
Food: 100,545 bushels
Runes: 237,274 runes
Population: 45,479 citizens (32.21 per Acre)
Peasants: 11,836 (97% Building Efficiency)
Trade Balance: -168,642gc (0% tax rate)

Military Eff. with Stance: 118.76% off. / 122.6% def.
Soldiers: 0 (64.8% estimated draft rate)
Swordsmen: 0
Archers: 0
Knights: 25,194 (179,526 offense / 123,551 defense)
War-Horses: 2 (up to 2 additional offense)
Prisoners: 0

Total Modified Offense: 179,528 (127.14 per Acre)
Practical (80% elites): 143,621 (101.71 per Acre)
Total Modified Defense: 123,551 (87.50 per Acre)
Practical (20% elites): 24,711 (17.50 per Acre)

Thieves: 4,262 (3.02 per Acre / 62% Stealth)
Wizards: 4,187 (2.97 per Acre / 22% Mana)

Spy on Throne on your province will show:
Max. Possible Thieves/Wizards: 13,707 (9.71 / Acre)
Estimated Thieves Number: 5,483 (3.88 per Acre)
Estimated Wizards Number: 2,056 (1.46 per Acre)

** Networth Table: **
Total Networth: 315,291gc (223.29 per Acre)
Knights: 176,358gc (56%) - [7gc]
Land (90% built): 72,012gc (23%) - [15+40gc]
Science (estimated): 21,031gc (7%) - [1/92gc]
Thieves: 17,048gc (5%) - [4gc]
Wizards: 16,748gc (5%) - [4gc]
Peasants: 11,836gc (4%) - [1gc]
Money: 257gc (0%) - [1/1000gc]
War Horses: 1gc (0%) - [0.6gc]

Buildings: 839gc to build, 438gc to raze

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Have only recently put payrate from 100 to 150% (just to bump up numbers abit since not drafted fully, or built scary at all)... from 50% roughly 24-36hrs ago i wasnt paying much attention, coming out of eowcf

I stopped drafting at 65% - original plan was 70-74% - but stopped to keep pezz/income slightly higher and stuff some more gcs, and thus sci on....

Military Intelligence

** Summary **
Non-Peasants: 73.6%
Efficiency (SoM): 118.8% off, 122.6% def, 116.8% raw
Net Offense at Home (from Utopia): 179,528
Net Defense at Home (from Utopia): 123,551
Modified Attack points (calculated): 179,585
Modified Defense points (calculated): 123,551

** Standing Army (At Home) **
Generals: 5 (+12% offense bonus)
Knights: 25,194 (179,583 offense / 123,551 defense)
War Horses: 2 (up to 2 additional offense)
Total Attack points: 201,135

** Troops in Training **
Knights: 47 (335 offense / 230 defense)
Next 18 hours: 2 3 4 2 3 2 3 3 3 3 2 3 2 3 3 2 2 2
Thieves: 255
Next 12 hours: 19 20 18 19 20 19 18 20 20 20 18 18...



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As i said previously, my build is not really a build ATM just to keep income higher to add on sciences while kd is on some downtime / grow time :p
oh and the small numbers *1* is buildings i am planning on running, but still playing with them overall and numbers included....

Personality: The Sage
Race: Human
Building Efficiency: 96.6%
Kingdom Stance: Normal

1. Homes: 113 (8%)
2. Farms: 85 (6%)
3. Banks: 317 (22.5%)
4. Training Grounds: 4 (0.3%)
5. Armouries: 369 (26.1%)
6. Hospitals: 1 (0.1%)
7. Guilds: 141 (10%)
8. Towers: 141 (10%)
9. Watch Towers: 1 (0.1%)
10. Libraries: 155 (11%)
11. Schools: 85 (6%)

Total Land: 1,412 Acres (100% built)

** Effects Summary (Available Buildings Only) **
1. +1,187 maximum population, +28.45% birth rate, 28 books
2. Produce 5,748 bushels (7,185 with FL), 21 books
3. 7,656gc, +21.02% income, 79 books
4. +0.41% offense bonus, 1 book
5. -27.97% training costs, -37.29% draft costs, -37.29% wages, 92 books
6. 0.14% cure plague, -0.21% military losses, 0 books
7. Training about 2.72 wizards per hour, 35 books
8. Produce 1,634 runes per hour, 35 books
9. Thieves: 0.14% catch, -0.21% damage, 0 books
10. +19.54% science effects (not affected by BE), 38 books
11. -8.2% science cost, protect 27.33% of science, 21 books



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sci plans (numbers including libs) - BE is going to be at 20% with currently learning - pop is going to 20% before we are done our growing - Thievery is going to bump up to 100% also before downtime is over... - ME sci I am going to try and pump to 20% also but im guestimating it will likely end up closer to 17% (unless i can find someone to rob blind :p)

current BPA from angel - 1146

** Effects Summary (Known Science Only) **
35.9% Income (331,706 books)
19.4% Building Effectiveness (190,601 books)
18.7% Population Limits (416,195 books)
121.7% Food Production (116,622 books)
14% Gains in Combat (234,002 books) <<<<<< silly angel Gains are for last age :p it is at 14% ME rightnow
86.4% Thievery Effectiveness (104,523 books)
126.5% Magic Effectiveness & Rune Production (224,097 books)

** Science Books in Progress **
Tools: 18,762 books in progress
Crime: 7,847 books in progress


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I am really open to ANY sort of critism or tips or suggestions, I have played a LONG time.. top and bottom... and like hanging out in between :p BUT knowledge is POWER, so ideas and tips are ALWAYS welcome, and critism is also generally good IMO

[makeo]

My tip is utilise d specs, and thieves. Pump crime Sci too


Thing smercjd missed was that when his human doubled the Orc that anon'd him to open, the Orc was real close to tripling back.

F*ck that. Utilise lower nw of thieves/d-specs to avoid it, and pump crime Sci like a boss.

Human ain't a great hitter so leverage it's strength. It's a great a/t.

[JuiceD]

Yes, i plan on getting thievery sci to 100% before we are done our 'slow time'


Previous to this with the exception of our last war i was generally in the middle of our kds attacker range and running something around ;

1-1.5rwpa
2-3rtpa
7/8 dspa
10-12 epa.. and as high as i could get it within my draft after reaching desired amounts in spec s/ thieves

depending on what the enemy was looking like for provs in my starting size sometimes i would go to my 10 epa, and dump the rest into specs... or tack on a extra tpa...




but as i had said, I am looking for some suggestions, and personally considering running about 4 dspa (remainder of what i can draft very comfortably) and might push it abit more.... also *debating* (very lightly due to costs LOL) which is going to be my first draggy fodder, but again kinda depends on the targets in the enemy kd... and if i want to drop my nw abit,

and personally IMO - with hummys +30% duration spells they are great a/m - for the 'bread and butter' basic war spells, even more so than a/t.... but i am going to try and dabble in all I'm thinking - BUTT generally speaking I spend most of my war time mana on TOG for draggys / aid, unless otherwise requested / planned, and it is a super help for everyone always...

my TB is low in the SOT due to everyone sending me their draggy contributions during / before last war, and soldiers when chained and no drake around (was +3mil before - and that was even taking everyones spare anything at all times to try to lower it lol)

[JuiceD]

Also - currently in the middle / low end of attackers range in my KD so i can easily add a few acres to lower epa and increase dspa - but i would certainly cry from the bad effects to my sciences :( lol

[Persain]

@juiceD, your at 8.38 peasents/acre...first things first i would lower that. get to between 4 and 6 ppa as soon as you can. other than that nice prov.
FYI posting full intell like that with such low schools is a bad move ;)

[StratOcastle]

I never said avian tac core...

[StratOcastle]

But guys always think in cores. I think this is somewhat misguided because we haven't addressed WHY you want a uniform core vs a more diverse setup.

[Bukharistan]

Agreed strato. This age we've run a diversified core and it kinda works. Think the main reason is that Kingdoms has a certain way to counter enemy provinces. For example, Orcs be bloated, Undeads aswell. Dwarves can be chained human need econ control. If you have 15 humans you can't control em all, but you can control 4-5 and chain the dwarves. Etc etc.

[StratOcastle]

Yes, and it was pointed out earlier, the viable nw of a kingdom full of expensive elites. In the lower tier this isn't as much a concern as when you start tangling with top 20.

I enjoy the lower tier because like Burkharistans kingdom I get to tangle with brilliant individuals. In a losing cause I was face to face with some flourishing sages. Earlier in the age I was able to exercise my full scope of capability. Now, with the science really kicking in and honor to augment the builds it was truly a test of resourcefulness.

Human sage is a formidable build and I do understand the effect of the logistics if not the math. For my part I've found speed to be the great equalizer, provided one is active enough to use it. Human sages are tough to gather intel against, rich in resources and fueled by one of the best elites. Rather than join the Hu/Sage crowd I like to experiment with counter builds to see where I'm at strategically. Perhaps avian tac doesnt have enough in it's tank for the cause, but dwarf tac has some tools to make it a race.

[makeo]

Dw/tact has been able to pwn dumb humans for a while.

Human works with 1k bpa +, and a/t set up.

[StratOcastle]

Dw/tact has been able to pwn dumb humans for a while.

Human works with 1k bpa +, and a/t set up.

And there's your trigger ^. - If it's in your competitive vicinity then you know what to do. Prevent that from happening unless diplo allows.

[Nightmare_]

A high homes well-run avian/tact core might be able to smoke hu/sage if they were equal nw. Would be nice if someone ran calcs :p