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Thread: Pyro vs BB

  1. #196
    Forum Addict TheOne's Avatar
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    Let me address some issues that have been asked around.

    First, congrats to BB for the warwin. They definitely deserved the win + those juicy acres. But was there really any doubt in the win in the first place? I mean, once Pyro dropped out of fort stance (we dropped 25hrs earlier than BB max fort into normal for more flexibility and timing vs BB still having homes and not read to 'punish' Pyro early dropping of fort), couldnt have BB just done what they did.. instead of waiting like ~3 more days... BB dwarf sages were superior in every single aspect, and most importantly, ~1500 average bpa w/ +200% thievery science. Their cows also had +200% thievery science. It was so evident that after ops were given to both sides, BB superior theivery mods will easily triump Pyros. Both in stealing gc+NSing the weakest cow. Plus BB had more military on the cows front. Was BB really afraid that we will soak cow hits just to keep 1 sided MS? It's not possible.

    Most people in Pyro knew that this war is definitely against our favour, but just didnt like how things are being dragged out so slowly. Nesta & me already knew we were just going to declare, and most probably min time withdraw. We were going to be nice and entertain and give BB a war that they deserve, and not do some shenanigans intra-razing or farming out to copetitors etc. We dont intend to start that kind of reputation/style. Thats why it was so frustrating waiting like ~3+ more days outside of fort just for action to really really start. It was like waiting to get 'farmed'. That was what made alot of us irritated.

    We didnt expect to lose 18.5k acres overall, that was definitely not planned. But we expected to lose a decent sum.

    To those haters that say we dont deserve to belong to the top, and we shld go back to the warring tier, and that we farmed out. Well, we decided not to be lame and intra-razed etc etc, and last I checked, losing 11.6% of your acres over a 9days hostile+war isnt a farming out. Or are you just jelly that Pyro lost acres the equivalent to the size of your ghetto kingdom? We have won top wars before.

    Mistakes from Pyros regarding this hostile (prefer to talk about hostile only, as war was already a foregone situation).

    - missed out our free hit on the 2nd day. we wanted to do something really really interesting to stir things up quicker by doing a raze from our smallest cow to their smallest cow. 600+ acres + massive troops lost. any retals will allow our 6k dwarves to raze their smallest cow too. BB also would find it hard and risky to drop fort and wave in >2x to give relations button + there would be gbp on Pyro's smallest cow. Pyro could then just use 2 hits w/ our 6ks to raze further and still not give relations.
    this didnt go through due to activity problem of that particular cow. it would have been interesting cause we still would have like 48hrs before max fort drops.

    - when we dropped fort to normal, we used our free hit and then switched the gold drake with a sapphire drake. should have left the gold drake there

    - should have been active during building swap dates, and just kept our 30% homes just like what BB did. in the end, we were all on ****ty ppa while BB still had their homes. it didnt have much effect on BE%, but cause us to bleed gc faster than BB

    - should have drafted deeper. We went like 1-1.5ppa average on the , cows at -1ppa.

    anyway, i was inactive for like most of the hostile/war. had rl issues to settle. so maybe my viewpoint isnt that accurate

    once again, congrats BB.

    and to all the haters, thanks for hating <3


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  2. #197
    Veteran faegan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tras19 View Post
    Well played pyro. You guys gave me my first hits of the age. :-)
    You meanies! All of you pickin' on little old me....

    Good fight lads, we'll meet again someday
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  3. #198
    Veteran faegan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spice View Post
    Complete farmout, what a joke

    Not even half bb their hits, no real take downs/damage sustained by bb at all.
    Can you read the summary?

    -2,818 Polar (7/61)
    -2,979 I Dont Like Beer (4/41)

    That's 102 out of 249 hits on two provinces. I was hit in the pre-war wave to a point where I was overpopulated quite badly. At that point I had a choice to either sit back and watch the war go by, release my entire wizard population and ruin the rest of the age for myself or release all my dspecs and thieves and go landdef right after the first wave hit me.
    I chose for the last and it hurt like hell...but at least I still have my wizzies!

    Ask BB how much damage we did ... I can't answer that.
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  4. #199
    Postaholic DonJuan's Avatar
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    Personally I'd release most wizzies before dspecs depending on how deep the chain was...but your right that there is very little you can do except make sure you can hit again next unique and not die of overpop.
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  5. #200
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    Maybe 1/2 wizards and 1/2 specs? I'm not there so it's only speculation.
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    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
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  6. #201
    Sir Postalot
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne View Post
    Was BB really afraid that we will soak cow hits just to keep 1 sided MS? It's not possible.
    I didn't think you were going to retal past 2 hits until we gave a button given our thief science. We ate like three waves from CR to keep 1 sided MS and FG in our CR fight. I suspect not hitting past 2 was probably the correct play, and what I was worried about.

    As for "could we have really done it sooner" maybe the game is easier for you than it is for me, 5 way bank fights made my head hurt ;p



    If we full wave and don't play meter point control you had 4-5 guys in NW range of our faeries, while we had none that could hit your top faeries, and you had 4 mystics with stronger WPA (8-8.5 raw) compared to our 2 at 7.5 raw. I was expecting you to win the MS war on our banks turtled.

    At the end of the day you don't want to go into a war with your opponent being able to fund 10 drakes, so you either have to rob the gold, steal the gold, or wage out the gold, and generally if you run out of gold first strategically you should be the one to initiate, especially if you have the unbreakable thief mages and we don't.

    In order to even open making a bank hit we needed for one of your banks to wait for 5 days to drop wages, and for it to starve during the staredown. That was the only way we could even make an opening hit, which didn't happen until about 18 hours into war.

    Absent all of those things, the bank fight likely would have gone similar to how it went vs us with CR, both sides 100% turtled the entire conflict because no one can open, and given how large everyone else is, to compete the win had to be bigger than just a bank turtle-fest.
    Last edited by flogger; 19-09-2014 at 00:41.

  7. #202
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    Pyro, Pyro, GET OFF THE ****ING BIKE!

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkie89 View Post
    ** Kingdom news report **
    For the time from February 2 of YR10 till April 5 of YR10 - 52 hours

    ** Summary **
    Total attacks made: 249 (47,760 acres)
    Total attacks suffered: 108 (29,701 acres)

    War is over. Pyro wd'ed at the 5th. Thanks for the war!
    I expected more acres exchange in the war for land crown.
    My kingdom recently finished war, with duration of 50 hours. We had more acres exchanged during the time. Strange why bigger kingdoms have less gains in attacks.
    Also number of Pyros attacks looks small.

  9. #204
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    Kinda odd yeah. My KD was at 33K acres last war (which lasted 75 hours to be fair), but we exchanged 25K - 22K acres. Kinda strange a KD 5x our size only takes 7K more acres.

  10. #205
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    explanation: cows didn't do army in army out due tot tactical reasons plus t/m's don't attack much

  11. #206
    News Correspondent protector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ans1990 View Post
    I expected more acres exchange in the war for land crown.
    My kingdom recently finished war, with duration of 50 hours. We had more acres exchanged during the time. Strange why bigger kingdoms have less gains in attacks.
    Also number of Pyros attacks looks small.
    Post a summary!
    Might be able to post an analysis then

    Quote Originally Posted by Bukharistan View Post
    Kinda odd yeah. My KD was at 33K acres last war (which lasted 75 hours to be fair), but we exchanged 25K - 22K acres. Kinda strange a KD 5x our size only takes 7K more acres.
    Probably because we had drafted deeper than Pyro did, making it hard for them to multitap us. Our NM+NS provinces still had high defense at home which made even doubletaps difficult for Pyro.
    Also, we had 5 TMs, Pyro had 4 and on top of that 4 hybrids with mediocre offense. 2 of those hybrids elves, the other a faery bank and a faery core prov. The elves and core faery had relatively low offense. Attackspeed from elf is also pretty slow as it lacks quick feet and with the horrible BE it makes rax pretty pointless also. The faery couldn't afford to oversend or he'd likely get targetted. The faery cow made one hit all war, on a province with troops out. It could other than that one time, not afford to attack.

    I imagine in the war kingdoms when there's lots of orcs and undeads, they run high offense and lower defense. This quickly opens up 3-4taps without doing much (if any) ops on the target. That probably explains the difference.
    Oh, and usually the acre exchange increases as war progresses due to kingdoms having less troops, so it's possible that number would be higher if our war had gone into the full 3rd day as well

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