Barrack Obama = Jimmy Carter 2.0

[MasterShake2129]

Did someone seriously compare forced Health Insurance to forced Car Insurance? That is comparing Apples and Oranges. The state does not mandate you to get collision/comprehensive insurance, you are required to get liability insurance in case you injure someone else. Health insurance is solely for your own benefit. Please name the states that mandate you to have collision/comprehensive and then your point is valid. (Do not confuse State mandated, verse lender mandated. If you finance a new car, or lease you will be required to get collision/comprehensive by the lender to secure their interest in the vehicle, similar to getting homeowners insurance when you have a mortgage)

The real problem with Healthcare costs is it became the ONE AND ONLY insurance that you want to use. Think of all the other insurance policies out there, Car, Life, Homeowners, Flood, etc. All of them only get used when something terrible happens. If Health Insurance were the same, and stopped covering things like routine visits, the flu, going to the dr for strep or any other non-major disease, and instead it was only used for MAJOR problems (IE you need to go to the hospital) the cost would go WAAAAY down. Another way to drop the cost of health insurance is the lawsuits in this country are disgusting, and its cheaper to settle than to go through with the lawsuit, even if the defense is going to win, but that gets into a whole different argument.

For all of you in favor of ACA, if the republicans maintain the house and senate and get a president in, are you ok with a law that mandates every individual own a firearm (Lets say over 18) or you pay a penalty on your tax return each year? If you fall into the poor category there will be subsidies to make the firearm cheaper for you.

[Palem]

Health insurance is solely for your own benefit.

This is actually untrue. Unpaid health care costs eventually become someone's else's problem and in the case of emergency room visits (not sure if that extends to anything else), the burden of payment already falls to the taxpayers.

The real problem with Healthcare costs is it became the ONE AND ONLY insurance that you want to use. Think of all the other insurance policies out there, Car, Life, Homeowners, Flood, etc. All of them only get used when something terrible happens. If Health Insurance were the same, and stopped covering things like routine visits, the flu, going to the dr for strep or any other non-major disease, and instead it was only used for MAJOR problems (IE you need to go to the hospital) the cost would go WAAAAY down.

The problem with this logic is that MAJOR problems are easily avoided by doing things like having routine visits, getting flu medication, ect. Having a questionable mole removed for $450 is much better for me and my pocketbook than getting chemotherapy for melanoma that costs me $20,000 by the end of things.

For all of you in favor of ACA, if the republicans maintain the house and senate and get a president in, are you ok with a law that mandates every individual own a firearm (Lets say over 18) or you pay a penalty on your tax return each year? If you fall into the poor category there will be subsidies to make the firearm cheaper for you.

No, I would not be ok with that for a few reasons.
1. Firearms can be dangerous. A quick google search says that according to the CDC about 500 people die from accidental firearm injuries a year. I'm not sure how much of that, or if just all of it is in-home accidents (no idea how they categorize that stuff), but either way it's a risk that I could otherwise avoid without said law and/or suffering a monetary penalty for.
2. I get absolutely no benefit from this law and must suffer a penalty for failing to follow it.
3. You are literally putting weapons into the hands of criminals.

None of the above apply to the ACA. Health insurance isn't a danger to anyone and if you didn't have it before you benefit from having it. Do I think the ACA could use some changes and make it better? Of course. Most do. I think that's the thing that escapes so many opponents of the bill.

[noobium]

Ahahahaha. The ACA is terrible. Forced health care that is overpriced (just like mandatory car insurance) and ineffective, bureaucratic overhead which is crushing it. Obama is either wrecking the country with his neoliberal friends, or (if you want to see him as optimistically as possible) making the ACA so awful that people will riot for single-player and accept a ****tier implementation.

The guy is a poverty pimp, pure and simple. Hillary will be more of the same. All of the Republicans want to start WW3 as soon as they get into office.

Yay for choices.

[MasterShake2129]

This is actually untrue. Unpaid health care costs eventually become someone's else's problem and in the case of emergency room visits (not sure if that extends to anything else), the burden of payment already falls to the taxpayers.


The problem with this logic is that MAJOR problems are easily avoided by doing things like having routine visits, getting flu medication, ect. Having a questionable mole removed for $450 is much better for me and my pocketbook than getting chemotherapy for melanoma that costs me $20,000 by the end of things.



No, I would not be ok with that for a few reasons.
1. Firearms can be dangerous. A quick google search says that according to the CDC about 500 people die from accidental firearm injuries a year. I'm not sure how much of that, or if just all of it is in-home accidents (no idea how they categorize that stuff), but either way it's a risk that I could otherwise avoid without said law and/or suffering a monetary penalty for.
2. I get absolutely no benefit from this law and must suffer a penalty for failing to follow it.
3. You are literally putting weapons into the hands of criminals.

None of the above apply to the ACA. Health insurance isn't a danger to anyone and if you didn't have it before you benefit from having it. Do I think the ACA could use some changes and make it better? Of course. Most do. I think that's the thing that escapes so many opponents of the bill.

So based on that, if the tax payers are already paying to cover the ER visits why did the insurance need to be mandated?

Yes preventative care should be mandated as a precurser to getting the insurance. Similar to any other insurance company who assesses the item they are going to insure. Generally insurance companys want to see a used car, inspect a house, make you get a physical for life insurance etc etc, why shouldnt it be the same for health insurance.

For the Firearms:
1) lock up your gun and its not an issue.
2) defend your home from intruders? sounds like a pretty good benefit if a rapist is breaking in
3) don't worry it would be restricted to those who can legally buy guns (Background checks), the criminals already have them lol (sad but true)

ACA could be considered dangerous to your health, false sense of security going to a dr/hospital. Quick search gave this:

"In 2010, the Office of Inspector General for Health and Human Services said that bad hospital care contributed to the deaths of 180,000 patients in Medicare alone in a given year.

Now comes a study in the current issue of the Journal of Patient Safety that says the numbers may be much higher — between 210,000 and 440,000 patients each year who go to the hospital for care suffer some type of preventable harm that contributes to their death, the study says."

Ill take my chances with the 500 =)

[Palem]

So based on that, if the tax payers are already paying to cover the ER visits why did the insurance need to be mandated?

Yes preventative care should be mandated as a precurser to getting the insurance. Similar to any other insurance company who assesses the item they are going to insure. Generally insurance companys want to see a used car, inspect a house, make you get a physical for life insurance etc etc, why shouldnt it be the same for health insurance.

They have to mandate that people get insurance so they stop getting so desperately sick that they're forced to go to the emergency room and forcing people like yourself to pay their hospitals bills. Also, that generally is the case as far as "inspections" with health insurance goes (in my experience). People with poor health are either turned down or have to pay quite a bit more for health insurance since they'll be using it far more frequently.

For the Firearms:
1) lock up your gun and its not an issue.
2) defend your home from intruders? sounds like a pretty good benefit if a rapist is breaking in
3) don't worry it would be restricted to those who can legally buy guns (Background checks), the criminals already have them lol (sad but true)

1. You assume I live alone and would be the only one with access
2. I'm already perfectly happy with my ability to defend my home from intruders.
3. Do you want me to give you a list of the mass shooters who were legally able to buy a gun? Also, I meant potential criminals. People that would commit crimes given the right circumstances. Mandating that everyone has a gun is just cultivating those circumstances.

ACA could be considered dangerous to your health, false sense of security going to a dr/hospital. Quick search gave this:

"In 2010, the Office of Inspector General for Health and Human Services said that bad hospital care contributed to the deaths of 180,000 patients in Medicare alone in a given year.

Now comes a study in the current issue of the Journal of Patient Safety that says the numbers may be much higher — between 210,000 and 440,000 patients each year who go to the hospital for care suffer some type of preventable harm that contributes to their death, the study says."

Ill take my chances with the 500 =)

I don't see any relation with having health insurance and suddenly thinking hospitals are safer than they actually are...unless I'm missing something.