Comments on Age 63 potential changes

[Bishop]

Hi all - please use this thread to comment on the potential changes. As always please remember to be constructive and stay on topic.

[nameisis]

Correction:

Sage was already at 40% Sci Effectiveness - so drop should be to 30%

The Sage
Every 4 acres generates 1 book
+40% Science Effectivness
Access to Amnesia
Starts with 40000 science books

http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...Age-62-Changes

[Bishop]

Thanks, edited

[Youlose]

Human elite nw, supposed to be unchanged? Dwarves at 6/3 had 5.5 nw.

[claritinclear]

Switching training speed bonus with using credits to train elites for Avian - That is probably going to make playing Avian even worse than it already is. Major problem this age was economy - if you can't draft soldiers neither of those bonuses will help and especially making elites weaker and more expensive will make it near impossible to keep up. I liked playing Avian but I feel like the +/- of the race makes it incredibly hard and make the race way weaker than other races

[noobium]

why would i run anything more than the bare minimum of attackers with these changes?

well i guess the people who ***** about FS setup will really hate this age.

[Winuz]

How will the avian elite credits function? I guess you will be able to train specs with those credits as well.

Will there be a 1:1 credit ratio for both specs and elites? Or will it be something like 2:1 for elites and 1:1 for specs?

[Anatak1989]

Avian looks like they might be good now!

Edit: Or not. I just saw they could train elites with credits and got excited. The birth rate penalty is still rough, but it's definitely not unplayable.

[nameisis]

Nice changes, couple of points:

1. If UD gets -75% losses, making them even more sustainable in war. + Higher wages for elites (good for UD as they run mix elites/specs) Then other 2 pure attacking races need more bigger boost than they got. We will again get 80% UD. Plague 24/7 war and NB try's. So if it stay should lower plague effect, or make NB more potent at healing plague.

2. Avian too weak, 6/1 is again super easy to ambush. Anon all the time and get low gains, maybe good not to bloat. But i think avian should get bigger speed bonus to at least 30%. CS is nice though

3. Boost ork more if UD changes stay.

4. Like changes to arson/fort/sage Dorfs and Humans

5. And like Ekusas said giving avian CS give Faery CS. And they almost certainly don't need CS

[Bishop]

How will the avian elite credits function? I guess you will be able to train specs with those credits as well.

Will there be a 1:1 credit ratio for both specs and elites? Or will it be something like 2:1 for elites and 1:1 for specs?

Its 1:1 and you can no longer use credits to train specs

[Ekusas]

Giving Faeries CS - Makes Elfs totally nonviable and Faeries insanely strong :P Seriously hope that was an oversight in giving avians CS, wich i totally like as a way to discourage the tact pick. But still CS faeries? nonononono

[Bukharistan]

I like the changes, perhaps Avian needs a small buff:

Avians
-25% Attack Time
+ 30% Sabotage Operation Damage
Can train Elites with Specialist Credits (New)
(Lost training speed bonus)

-20% Birth Rate
Cannot Use Stables

Spellbook: Fanaticism, Greater Protection, Clear Sight (new)
Elite: 6/1 (down from 6/2), 750gc (up from 650), 4.75NW (down from 5)

Avians
-30% Attack Time (from -25%)
+ 30% Sabotage Operation Damage
Can train Elites with Specialist Credits (New)
(Lost training speed bonus)

-20% Birth Rate
Cannot Use Stables

Spellbook: Fanaticism, Greater Protection, Clear Sight (new)
Elite: 6/0 (down from 6/2), 600gc (down from 650), 4.5NW (down from 5) --> elites don't die when you are attacked.


The rest is spot on, love all the changes Bishop. Heads up!

Oh, and thanks for taking my spec credit concerns into consideration, makes me feel proud ^^

[noobium]

shortlist:

avian - elite training credits are a huge downgrade, especially since it means they can't use spec credits for specs, which you would need a lot more often. somehow they became weaker relative to other attackers, not counting the benefit of CS.

dwarf - meh. 6/2 is not something they can work with and they took a general hit from the nerf bat. i wouldn't bother with them, not with...

elf - no changes from before but with attackers being absolutely pathetic at turtling and spec-reliant, their nightmare is so much better. due to turtle ability they are arguably better as core attacker than dwarf and way better than human.

faery - they got cs. the attacker threats to them are a little stronger (and the other options are weaker), so they have a lot more danger there. still expensive as hell elite. i like them.

halfling - wtf these guys are overkill. give them rogue personality and it's game over. they can even hit pretty good.

human - full-blown aids. the 6/4 elite was what made them work at all, without it they're just gimped versions of age 62 dwarf. even if you drop their elite nw to something reasonable like 5.5, it's still horrid.

orc - little beefier on the gains, the only attacker that can expect to counter t/m. avian might pull it off but they have to be super pumped. probably the only attacker most kingdoms should even spend their time with, unless they like plague.

undead - still crap and they will continue to be crap, but they're better than humans which are full-blown aids. bring decent ns and fb along and they're toast.

merchant - basically, pick merch if you want to be dwarf without the smelliness of being dwarf, and come with some nice bonuses along with it.

sage - basically only good for faeries, and maybe elves that want amnesia. but mostly faeries.

rogue - ridic good. halfer/rogue is obvious, but fae/rogue fills the t/m niche too, and elf/rogue is a pretty convincing a/t/m if they are in a setup that can make it really work. normally i wouldn't want rogue in ghettoland but with this change they're good there, too.

mystic - not as ridic good as it was, but it had to be nerfed.

warrior - meh. if people are doing it right, dwarf and human are relegated next age, and those are the races warrior really shines against. you don't really need the penta-tap against orcs and undeads, but the extra OME is hard to go wrong with.

tactician - (mostly) counterfeits avian. orc/tactician stomps most avians, and will probably be the go-to "easy" attacker this age.

cleric - the races it works with (dwarf and human) are nerfed so bad, so basically irrelevant. noobs will still pick it with avian. has reduced synergy with undead, not that there was a whole lot to begin with.

war hero - lol should i bother?

military science - if i'm reading this correctly, mil science is getting nerfed. this just puts the game even more in favor of t/m races, as attackers (already frail) don't get their primary science. bigger nerf to avian. i'm really liking orc.

arson changes - seems fine to me. the part where rogues were ridic good though? throw in "mandatory".

fortified changes - eh okay.

specialist credit decay - need to know more. i think it's a fair idea and something that slightly works against t/m.

elite wages - i oppose them on principle, because it's going to have the opposite effect of what is intended; i.e., the kingdom that can pump absurd elites is also likely to have money banked to pay wages long enough for their pump advantage to turn into econ advantage, so what happens is that kingdoms that are less-pumped get penalized for having elites w/o economy. please don't implement them. if it comes to that though, chalk one more advantage for t/m types.

all in all - first time in a few ages i've felt the race changes were a step back. mechanic changes besides the elite wages thing are all either positive or mainly neutral. making t/ms strong isn't necessarily a bad thing. i prefer to have attackers that balance off/def, creates more options than compulsory suiciding, but i can see how at the top that makes things more annoying. humans, avians, and dwarves need to be better, in order of which needs the most improvement to the least. undead is fine because it's a newbie race and plague is potentially decent. personalities are mostly fine (even though i say rogue is ridic good, they probably need to be good in order to work). halfling/rogue and fae/rogue are bananas.

[harryvdlaan]

wow..... Is this april fools day or what?!
If you guys really want to go with these changes you are killing the game...

You basically made everything suck (no thats not the same as balanced) and made attackers even more useless.

Ah well I guess the big guy upstairs decided utopia had a long enough run...

[Andurilas]

War Hero is still irrelevant. Give it a Dragon Slaying bonus and maybe even good KDs will run it.