Orc Warrior vs Undead Tact

[Attero]

Which is the better option and why. my kd will run orcs this age we think so thoughts on this as wrll

[Ahab]

I favor combos with built-in speed or troop protection. Orc warrior offers neither and that poses build challenges because you'll need a lot of barracks and hospitals to cover both needs. It can be done but it really stretches your build unless you want to be slow or lose troops fast. So, personally I'd favor undead tactician but it depends on your schedule, style, and kingdom. I also recommend you not listen to anyone who gives you a definite answer. There aren't really many situations in which you can say one combo is simply "better" than another.

[pathetic sheep]

Tactician can attack more often. Orc warrior will have more offense and will have more impact per hit. Which one is better depends on the players schedule. Can you fit 3 hits in per real day?

[StratOcastle]

Orc warrior because it's the last sure way to break faery. As you know from my virtual kingdom I like and would have both, but....if you can't break a faery and he can most certainly break you....

Your tac core is great core vs core, but excluding warrior could mean you start war against enemy unbreakables. These are undead that can't steal or kidnap. If I were your enemy chaining those tacs I'd put explosions on them to screw aid. Finish the blanket because you're not reflecting anything and let the rest sort itself out.

In Arktic Fury we faced such a puzzle. I was part in a formidable undead core. We faced a kingdom with a split core of mainly dwarf mystics and undead tac and warriors. The had a couple of turtley avians as well. Long story short they FBd the mass of our core and laid heavy fader ops. Most of us were full size and not chained but we were rendered nearly immobile. The demand for aid was too high for our t/ms to supply and we lost.

[neanderthal]

is your average war min time, or 4-7 days. Min time, both are good, with a little more preference to the Orc. Long wars, well undeads last - you know - since they are undead

[Nightmare_]

Orc warrior is nice for short quick wars where starting offense is needed to get the ball rolling. Ie orc t/m breakers as stated in this thread. Undead/tact is solid though. Great space efficiency (no need for farms or rax, maybe no hosp dep on playstyle), which gives a lot of options. cs and accurate intel are great bonuses.

[Andurilas]

Orc warrior because it's the last sure way to break faery.

Human Warrior gets higher sends in war, though, I'm pretty sure.

[StratOcastle]

Human Warrior gets higher sends in war, though, I'm pretty sure.

I'm sure you're right, I'm not a math guy. I certainly looked at human warrior myself for the war stack. To me the orc is a straight up 7 in and out of war. The orc warrior hostile strength is pretty. I'm hopeless with the numbers after that.

I look at top-feeder deterrence so orc warrior is part of the elf mystic and halfling rogue detachment. The deep % personality combos that as a triad hit any provinces defense at it's extreme. I'm contemplating the addition of elf sage because Amnesia can be the gate by which all waters flow. It's more a situational weapon that function admirably in normal operations. I'm just a strong believer in having the tools to fight up in nw and let the player handle any deficits on equal ground.

[MrCurious]

UD/TACT is my favorite. It is a real space saver. You dont need farms, hosps or rax so it frees up a **** load of land to use for other buildings.
The AT bonus is sweet, but CS + accurate intel saves specs + thieves. Paired with -75% offensive losses and you got yourself a mean machine.

[Zantetsuken]

UD/TACT is my favorite. It is a real space saver. You dont need farms, hosps or rax so it frees up a **** load of land to use for other buildings.
The AT bonus is sweet, but CS + accurate intel saves specs + thieves. Paired with -75% offensive losses and you got yourself a mean machine.

This is completely untrue (except for not needing Farms). The only way UD is more land efficient than other races is not needing Farms. UD can still benefit greatly from Hospitals, and it's mandatory for all UD, including Tact to run WTs to protect their specs. UD is a space saver, but not nearly as much as people think. A UD/Tact still needs to run Hosps and WTs to be effective.

[Bukharistan]

What about Orc/tactician? Run 10.2 hours basic attack times, then during wave-times you all add 2 hours to top up your +25% gains wtih another 10% --> +37.5% gains. Not bad :)

[Bishop]

What about Orc/tactician? Run 10.2 hours basic attack times, then during wave-times you all add 2 hours to top up your +25% gains wtih another 10% --> +37.5% gains. Not bad :)

You'd gain more by not using + hours and just hitting on time.

[Zantetsuken]

What about Orc/tactician? Run 10.2 hours basic attack times, then during wave-times you all add 2 hours to top up your +25% gains wtih another 10% --> +37.5% gains. Not bad :)

I'm somewhat biased, but I prefer Warrior/Cleric on attackers over Tact with the exception of Dwarf/Tact. I like Orc/Warrior and UD/Warrior over Tact. Orc/Warrior gives you a potential 125% gains * 5 attacks = 625%. Throw some Rax on top of that, and nothing can outgain you no matter how quickly they are attacking.

[Bukharistan]

You'd gain more by not using + hours and just hitting on time.

But the impact damage is lower. Assuming not all KDs have 20 provs online every 10 hours (attackers + TMs) it's going to be problematic like that. Rather have my guys be home at one tick to all attack at the same time. If you keep hitting in-range you will take 16.5% of someone's land on the first hit, after that between 13-14% (with GBP kicking in). 5 hits is enough to land-drop someone 55% :)

Warrior is nice but runs the danger of missing out on uniques once BE drops or build gets destroyed (or you'll have to take less gains with -hours, which kinda negates the use of orc), tactician never has that problem and is thus more IRL friendly. The orc/warrior math of 625% assumes that you're able to penta-tap, quite often you don't have the offense for that unless you're fighting at the botom. What remains in the top-halve fight is 3% more OME as you're never going to be able to utilize all your generals to get those 625% gains (apart from tiny side-hits, which is basically the difference between warrior-tact unless chained down).

[MrCurious]

This is completely untrue (except for not needing Farms). The only way UD is more land efficient than other races is not needing Farms. UD can still benefit greatly from Hospitals, and it's mandatory for all UD, including Tact to run WTs to protect their specs. UD is a space saver, but not nearly as much as people think. A UD/Tact still needs to run Hosps and WTs to be effective.

Of course they need WTs, where did you see me say otherwise? If you go ud you accept the role as chain bait. Hosps helps lower the defensive losses and only very little offensively considering the race bonus - but I still wouldnt run them. Going without em helps keep overpop in check. TW and defensive losses keeps you alive = leaves room for your elites. Thats all that matter when being chained.