**** it, i'll make my own self-aggrandizing thread,
ask questions to a jaded, frustrated semi-noob; ghetto experience for ghetto people, and maybe something slightly useful.
before realest cuts in, here's a link to his thread, if you're interested in that sort of thing:
http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...ealest-Returns
You are getting semi-chained in war. You are hitting two Uniques per day, bringing land in all the time. Do you leave your new acres unbuilt, so that those are being taken first? Or build anyway?
I'll keep it simple.
What is a very good DPA, TPA and WPA for a small(400-750 acre) Halfling/Rouge that is in the Ghetto and wants to mainly run a selfish Age?
I have restarted in Year 10, so my Science is s**t and so is my Honor.
Also, it would be very helpful to have some ideas on a decent Building Strategy in and out of War.
Again, for a Province that is mainly only concerned with it's own affairs and not that of the Kingdom as a whole.
I doubt this will challenge you or even keep you busy fopr very long. I have went back and read many of your posts and overall I like your attitude toward the game. So I appreciate any wisdom you wish to impart on me. Also, anything that comes from others that read this thread would also be much appreciated.
Jack Rabbit Slims
Agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 10000%Originally Posted by JackRabbitSlim
the game no longer takes barren acres first.
in war you should only build things that will be useful, and think about where your province will be when those buildings come in. if i build tg or barracks in war, i like to time the construction of those buildings so they are ready the tick my armies return, in order to maximize building efficiency and perhaps surprise enemies who think my offense will be less than it is; this is not necessary but is helpful. otherwise, plan for where you will be after two unique hits.
the question then is whether it's worthwhile to pay building costs, or save your build credits for a point where they will mean more. paying 800 gc to build an acre might not mean much, especially if those acres are going to be destroyed by trads or worse, razes.
if i'm about to win a war, i like to keep acres unbuilt in order to improve my nw range, and get some free building credits when the wd comes. but usually i leave that to instinct, and of course if there are situations where building to increase nw is helpful.
it also depends on what you are building. just building something to build something, might not be very useful, but building something you will need is probably worth the risk of those acres being destroyed.
of course, if you need to build to avert overpopulation losses, you usually should - it's a lot cheaper than losing specs and thieves. but you can use soldiers to cover for desertions when you are semi-chained, and sometimes it's better to manually release thieves to get those soldiers.
if i'm a small halfer/rogue starting late, why bother being defensive at that size? train offos and some brutes, and go plundering along with the obvious thievery. you'll be able to finish up on chains too, and against ghetto kingdoms you will either gain acres or just swap acres at the bottom. depending on the ghetto, they might not even realize the right way to deal with such a province is to massacre; but a province that is small and lacking science won't have the dpa to stop a massacre against kingdoms that know what they're doing, either.
i did something like this a few ages ago when i restarted, except halfers had +1 offspecs at the time. 2/2 soldiers with aggression can work too.
when you have 400-500k books and the opportunity to pump military in fort/eowcf, you can revert to a more traditionally defensive halfer, even if you're smallish. this late it is unlikely you'll ever get there.
most likely your buildings when you start would be banks, stables, and barracks - there is no shortage of inactives and ghetto provinces when you start, so you can hit without tg, and hospitals aren't too important for you. you should probably look for 20% guilds to build up a little wpa, and training grounds/dungeons/thief dens as you can spare them. probably the hardest would be dealing with small avian, orc, and undead that have a similar goal, but even then you shouldn't lose much.
note that if you fight an early war and have a soft prop target, you have defense for you - it is unlikely you will be at a size where you can AW a useful target, and for obvious reasons you want to op in nw range as often as possible.
forget about honor in the ghetto - you'll be lucky to get to viscount(ess), and it doesn't matter too much.
(by the way, for a standard oop, halfling and faery can and should play attacker if they're not being explored to a useful size, though they would be building different things; namely the banks, stables, and guilds most core attackers would use. increasing your retal ability and ability to war early age is worth a lot more than having a defensive province that can't defend, though you do need defensive provinces to win an early war - that's where mystics, elves, and sages are better though, assuming like most kingdoms you have no business putting up cows...)
Last edited by noobium; 27-12-2014 at 08:26.
Thanks Noobium.
I will give your tactics a try.
At this point, what you say sounds like it might actually make the rest of the Age a bit of fun!
Could you spell that out? Maybe add something about "soldier balls". I see this done wrong frequently.
May also add something about why provinces should [should not???] hit the monarch's chain target. Why/when is chaining a better idea than hitting an equal networth province for big land and fat honor gains? Is ghetto monarch/steward just being bossy?
How many provinces should be chained at time. When switch to next etc.
Soldiers cover overpopulation desertions. If you are facing severe overpopulation as an attacker, you are likely going to lose a large percentage of your tpa and defense to desertion, and you will have no use for that temporarily huge tpa since overpop locks you out of thievery. Thus, it may (not always) be better to manually release to 500 thieves, or whatever number is suitable for the size you expect to end at; that way, you can preserve your defense for a little longer at the expense of losing more thieves.Could you spell that out? Maybe add something about "soldier balls". I see this done wrong frequently.
Usually, if a chain is done effectively, releasing thieves won't help much, and it is far better to have soldiers aided instead. However, at the early stages of war, soldiers are in short supply, so that isn't always possible.
Dunno what this means, but chains are primarily for overpopulation losses and forcing nw down so attackers can't hit your high nw defensive provinces. These things should go hand-in-hand, and a chain that doesn't cause overpopulation is useless. Some monarchs get it in their head that they need to focus on one target just because, but they don't inflict any serious damage or change the conditions of war significantlyMay also add something about why provinces should [should not???] hit the monarch's chain target.
Landchains aren't always the most effective strategy. You want to do the thing which is most effective hit-for-hit every time. Empty acres are worse than useless for an attacker, and thus aiming to acquire them for no real reason is about the worst thing you can do.Why/when is chaining a better idea than hitting an equal networth province for big land and fat honor gains? Is ghetto monarch/steward just being bossy?
Sadly many kingdoms have forgotten how to max gain effectively.
Varies based on your setup, the tendencies of the enemy kingdom, and so on. I don't always go for landchains (if i were in a position to dictate things, which sadly i tend not to be). Massacre is highly undervalued in ghettos, apparently many still haven't received the memo from several ages ago.How many provinces should be chained at time. When switch to next etc.
This is where it helps to know the potential output in your own kingdom, instead of charging blindly into a chain or war, and then see what you want to accomplish. Are you trying to landchain t/ms to remove their defense+tpa? Are you trying to remove defense+tpa from enemy core attackers, so that they have terrible nw range on your own t/ms? Are you trying to drop an attacker entirely out of any nw range? These things will all require varying levels of output.
The general rule of thumb is that you would want to drop 75% of a target's acreage to consider a landchain good. Of course, while they are overpopulating, you might as well continue if you have more hits; starting a semi-chain with spare hits is not always good. Generally it takes about 15-16 hits in nw range to put a target into significant overpop. This is where it is useful to know the offensive abilities of all your provinces, so you can allocate hits in a way that ensures as many people hit in nw range as possible.
This is where it is helpful for the monarch to direct each hit on a wave, so he can get maximum value out of each hit. Also consider using spare hits to massacre or raze rather than landgrab.
As an attacker, the bees knees is a situation where i can 1tap a t/m on good defense and 1tap an attacker, and know that both hits can be followed up in successive waves; however, this is not easy to do, but if i have 10-15+ provinces capable of doing that, i can do a lot of damage during the early stages of war.
Many people overrate the necessity of incoming acres, especially in longer wars. By min time, you should have a clear idea of the offensive output, defensive potential, and organization of a target kingdom, and thus whether you really need incoming acres or not. The value of this changes as troops and peasants naturally fade, and the longer war goes on, the more value non-land attacks have (as far as winning a war, anyway).
To answer the questions though: usually pick two targets per wave when landchaining, and ffs don't take longer than one wave to chain some core attacker. This pattern is usually effective up until min time, at which point you can re-assess the situation and figure out whether you maxgain for acres/honor, hit for max damage, continue landchaining, etc. The more organized your kingdom is and the higher draft rates start, the longer landchains are really viable; in ghettoish play you can usually detect when landchains are no longer causing significant damage and when to try something different.
Focused massacre and raze, on the other hand, don't have the same constraints as landchains on their usefulness, so if you really want to ruin a province, use non-land attacks.
Last edited by noobium; 28-12-2014 at 01:36.
In EOWCF, do you feel its better to drop off buildings, and run a 50% banks strat to effectively renew cash supply for when you drop off the CF?
Or is there a better way to strategize?
How can I join you in ghetto kingdom?
If we have building credits, should we use accelerate?
Ask nicely.
I wouldn't build 50% banks for any reason. 20-25% caps the % effect from banks on provinces with good BE, and Homes are more useful for flat income and soldiers.
If I have unemployment, I wouldn't want to raze whatever I had too early either.
It's a good idea to know when you're leading in war, and prepare banks/homes if you suspect a wd; at least at lower levels, you can tolerate the case where your banks are no good. For homes, one anti-chain countermeasure is to build heavy homes afterwards, and one of the consequences of this is that you will have homes ready for rebuilding if the war is over early.
Generally I prefer to build homes up until I reach unemployment rather than release military, even though releasing does generate more money. The time saved by not drafting is one less thing to micromanage, and if I don't use fortified after eowcf it means less time required to draft troops - especially with the homes boosting my effective DR. You can't release to 20 pez/acre and utilize homes in cf effectively, and I'd rather have the BE and draft rate than a little more money a lot of times. Sometimes though a little of both is better - released military to get some pezzies or exploration soldiers, then prepare homes+banks and such **** afterwards.
Really though, money can be made hand-over-fist in eowcf. Some provinces have a little difficulty if they want to attain high DR, but following proper pump procedures (draft at emergency at the latest possible moment, manage your economy to maximize income, build armories if you need them) is enough to get by. Just be sure to train the right things, like offense before defense, and if you absolutely need to be at high DR, try to get your kingdom to extend fort stance after the cf. There is no way with fortified bonuses that you should need longer than 6 days to attain a useful DR unless you're doing something wrong in rebuilding.
I find a bigger problem for low-tier kingdoms is that they are liable to get plundered if they sit on too much money - or worse, because ghettos are so afraid of being plundered, they deliberately sabotage their post-war economy thinking that this is how the game should be played. If you don't need armories or so many banks, don't build them; you probably don't if you're in a standard low-tier kingdom, but you don't want to use suboptimal drafting or building strategies either (that's just wasteful). Diverting some of that bank land to guilds is a pretty good idea, stables too if you're playing a race that would normally use mounts.
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