Reshaping the "target wasteland"

[Korp]

I don't think that's what really bothers people. It's not really recovering that's the problem. It's the difference between what the losers get and what the winners get and how the losers have a really hard time keeping up with the winners. It's not so much "We need moar!" as much as "We need to be able to keep up"

You're comparing losing now, to winning/losing when there weren't bonuses, and yea it's easy mode. But compare winning now to winning/losing then and it's complete insanity. But then again, I don't really care. If you want to war then war.

Thats exactly my point you LOOSE and you expect to get something out of it? It doesnt make any sense :( You lose, you're a loser, you dont deserve anything imo, but still you get a very buffed up eowcf for example.

Yes, winning now and then is insanity but losing now and then is also different, then you didnt get buffed up periods of safe conduct for example.

[Verminator]

If you want to war then war.

But the game doesn't support that mentality. You can't just keep warring without losing the competitive aspect. At some point you just become a loss waiting to happen.

And many kingdoms believe they want to war, but are not warring unless the circumstances serve them well enough. That's the problem; kingdoms claim they want to war, but they don't really want to "war" they just want to "win" ;)

So yes, making it less detrimental to lose, that's the right direction. The damage you take in a losing war effort is punishment enough for losing. The further losses upon withdrawal are compounding the existing problem, so the only way to avoid this downward spiral is to never get IN a war in the first place unless you 99% believe you can win it.

And let's face it, any good monarch can punch some paranoid holes in any war scenario. Taking away the detriment of withdrawing will help them be more willing to press the button and actually rely on their team's skills and activity instead of predetermined setups that can be simulated all the way from start to victory.

[Zauper]

You aren't punished for withdrawing, though? Unless you're talking about the 5% honor loss? Like, 'not getting free stuff' isn't a punishment?

[Palem]

Unless you're talking about the 5% honor loss?

That doesn't happen anymore afaik

[Zauper]

That doesn't happen anymore afaik

I believe it is still displayed when you actually hit the WD button, so maybe it's a messaging bug.

Point being -- losing a war doesn't result in you getting punished.

If you're talking about 'well, relative to someone who won a war, you are in a worse position' the answer is a distinct 'maybe'.

Someone who sat OOW and pumped for the entire length of the war is in better position than both the winner and loser of a war. A KD that was smaller, gained 10% land in war, and won the war is probably, even with the WW bonus, weaker than a kd that was equally pumped, and lost 10% land in war -- the science/wpa differential between the two would be significant and while credits are great for some things, most attackers prefer all elite offense, and most t/ms don't run specs.

[SlightlyOverdosed]

So yes, making it less detrimental to lose, that's the right direction. The damage you take in a losing war effort is punishment enough for losing. The further losses upon withdrawal are compounding the existing problem, so the only way to avoid this downward spiral is to never get IN a war in the first place unless you 99% believe you can win it.

What downward spiral? In utopia if you pump long enough you can be in the best condition one can be. This just means that if the losing KD wants to reach the same pump as the winning one it requires a bit more time before it's "ready" to start looking for the next war. You are comparing then like the two KDs are expected to war each other again next. That's assuming they end up on equal acres.
The losing side does not always take much more damage, sometimes the wd is made before the real damage starts coming.

Furthermore, as Zauper stated, due to wpa and bpa being modified by acres the losing KD may end up more pumped.