Proposal to end he Awar

[AquaSeaFoam]

Lets assume everything you say is true. What really rubs me the wrong way personally is the way Emeriti handled this situation and/or handles these kind of situations in general. You see if you detected that BB is exploring in a way that shouldn't be allowed, I would be perfectly fine with it if you yourself as in your kingdom and not some third party razed BB to the ground or took whatever actions you saw fit. I'm just a nobody in this whole mess, so you can continue on with your diplomacy or whatever this is. Not that anyone needs to hear yet another opinion on the matter so I'll shut up now. Have a good one.

Again, there seems to be a misunderstanding. Exploring in pwcf on no military is allowed and is perfectly fine. The only question is if it is also perfectly fine for a kd with no cf to hit the kingdom who is exploring on no military. Emeriti debated this and decided that it was not appropriate for a kingdom in their position to vulture BB since their kingdom could just war them after.

Bours kingdom though was much weaker but had the #1 province and a few other big ones. Bours kingdom could not stand a chance to war them after BB trained up or even fight them after. Emeriti wanted Bour to get a cf with BB. Emeriti suggested that if BB was not giving him one he could force one by razing. Emeriti did not want bour to raze BB to help Emeriti's position and only wanted Bour to get his own cf. Right from the start, bour offered BB extra free land and then even free gc and a fake hostile in order to try and get himself a cf. None of these things would have helped Emeriti.

The only reason emeriti appeared to end up benefitting from the situation is because BB refused all of Bour's offers and instead decided they wanted to crush him. As part of this, they gave Emeriti a longer cf than they otherwise planned to. It should be clear though, that Bour offered BB stuff that would have helped BB's position relative to Emeriti had BB just cf'd him and accepted it. This was not done for Emeriti even though it was done in part on the advice of Emeriti on how Bour could get himself a CF.

[AquaSeaFoam]

Do you always reply to every messages you recieve within the second you read it? You never discuss kd business with your kd mates, just decide everything on the fly?

You read the forums enough to know I don't, but I do have bursts where I am here replying and this is one of them. You do the same as evidenced here. This stuff is all old and I've already talked about it with Emeriti.

[Korp]

You read the forums enough to know I don't, but I do have bursts where I am here replying and this is one of them. You do the same as evidenced here. This stuff is all old and I've already talked about it with Emeriti.

So, the reasonable conclusion would be that BB didnt ignore Bour as you have claimed over and over again.

[AquaSeaFoam]

So, the reasonable conclusion would be that BB didnt ignore Bour as you have claimed over and over again.

I'm sure you know that in utopia you can see when someone has read your message. BB read bours messages but did not respond. We all agree Bour should have waited more than 4 hours. Bour also agrees he should have waited longer. Do you feel that if bour waited longer after his messages were read that then it would be ok for him to raze and offer the land back for a cf to try and get them to respond?

Personally, I respond to all ingame messages requesting a response when i read the message even if it is just to say "I'll check into it." I understand that not everyone else does this though and I am not trying to say BB was wrong to not reply. I'm just saying that not responding to cf requests when you're on no real military and big land poses risks. Bour hitting and offering all land back plus extra for a cf was far nicer than the "FSU" kingdoms that offer nothing back and refuse to cf you that kingdoms like Emeriti frequently have to deal with.

[Akkadian/Taylor]

I'm sure you know that in utopia you can see when someone has read your message. BB read bours messages but did not respond. We all agree Bour should have waited more than 4 hours. Bour also agrees he should have waited longer. Do you feel that if bour waited longer after his messages were read that then it would be ok for him to raze and offer the land back for a cf to try and get them to respond?

Personally, I respond to all ingame messages requesting a response when i get the message even if it is just to say "I'll check into it." I understand that not everyone else does this though and I am not trying to say BB was wrong to not reply. I'm just saying that not responding to cf requests when you're on no real military and big land poses risks.

Assuming arguendo that all of this actually happened, if bour is as nub as you say he is, isn't it possible that he clicked on the message himself? We also all know that when you do this, it makes the message appear as if it were read by the other side.

[AquaSeaFoam]

Bour is not a nub. His kingdom is pretty ghetto though. As far as I know, BB has never denied that their steward read the cf request but did not reply.

[Band of Horses]

Photographic evidence of Emeriti leader chan:

[Akkadian/Taylor]

Oh, see I thought in all these conversations Emeriti was claiming to be advising bour because he was a nub and did not know how to properly diplo/obtain cfs. Sorry!

[AquaSeaFoam]

No, that is not what Emeriti ever claimed.

[protector]

You are right, his messages were read and ignored, and we all agree he did act with too much haste. However, would it really have made any difference to the fundamental question if he waited longer for his messages to be ignored or if his cf request was rejected outright? If he waited 24h instead of 4h for multiple messages to be read and ignored, then would hitting and offering the land back plus extra for a cf been ok?

...............
You are either dumb or just incredibly stupid.
Even if he had wait at least 12hours, there would have been no way to have added enough troops to be of any harm.

[AquaSeaFoam]

So if he waited 12h instead of 4h, would him hitting and offering all land back plus extra free land for a cf then been ok?

[tetley]

Palem you're doing the literalism thing AGAIN. No the current sides of the affair are not an alliance in the sense KLA or HAJ or whatever was back in the day. But it's two groups of kingdoms who are enemies with all members of the other group just by virtue of association. Though it could be brief, that's an "alliance" for all intents and purposes...

BTW, all the stuff that happened in those couple ****show ages with swea/rage/ama/pew/haswell etc. was at least justified on something that had happened before (the dealbreak with rage and debauchery, etc). I'm not saying those justifications were strong enough but at least they existed. In this case, on the other hand, Emeriti took the first step in ****playing. They were the rock, not the ripple. SWEA's actions that age were much farther down the Rube Goldberg machine of ****play and dealbreaks.

A more cynical approach is that noone cared what happened to debauchery because they were actioned for cheating some ages prior and everyone thought they were scum and shouldn't be in the top. That wasn't my point of view, but this is definitely how some people felt at the time.

[Palem]

No, but since you're a clueless nub it would be hard for you to know I guess.

4 Kingdoms agreed to work together to take down 1 kingdom based on something they did in game.

How is that not exactly like what is happening here aside from maybe the number of kingdoms? It doesn't matter why they agreed to help, they're all working together to take out a common opponent.

Actually, don't bother responding. I'm sure in spite of my facts that I present, you'll just give out another one of your opinions and offer up nothing of actual value.

[AquaSeaFoam]

BTW, all the stuff that happened in those couple ****show ages with swea/rage/ama/pew/haswell etc. was at least justified on something that had happened before (the dealbreak with rage and debauchery, etc). I'm not saying those justifications were strong enough but at least they existed. In this case, on the other hand, Emeriti took the first step in ****playing. They were the rock, not the ripple. SWEA's actions that age were much farther down the Rube Goldberg machine of ****play and dealbreaks.

But you're wrong in this. First, Emeriti has been ****played by both Pyro and BB in recent ages. Second, Emeriti never even intended to ****play BB. Instead all they wanted was for Bour to get a cf with Bb and not get farmed. If it was intended to be a **** play, then why would bour first ask to cf? After he asked to cf and his message was read and ignored, then he razed and simultaneously offered all land plus extra free land back. When BB contacted him, he increased his offer to also include free gold (for fat BB to train for Emeriti) and even a fake hostile so Emeriti couldn't wave BB when they exited post war. How exactly is this a **** play? BB should have came out of the situation in an improved position if they weren't such jerks about it.

[DM_Benjamin]

This whole AWAR shenanigan seems a bit over the top. So far its just people picking sides and bending the truth to justify their actions