Proposal to end he Awar

[Palem]

Me saying we werent allies actually makes it so, some random poster with no insight at all in the matter has no say in it. Even though you claim you posted "facts" Your chain of thoughts might been reasonable if it was allies then ****ed over, but it was ****ing over then allies in your head. Makes no sense at all, also shows that you dont know Anri at all. :(

That's actually not the case. Even if you had no intention of honor any of your deals, you convinced a small group of kingdoms to help you achieve your goals (unbeknownst to them). BB and Emeriti have convinced a small group of kingdoms to help them achieve their goal (with absolutely no benefit to the supporting kingdoms). You act like if you screw someone over in YR2 they can't agree to help you do something in YR12.

Also, I know Anri just fine. That's why SWEA's crown was so impressive, at least in my eyes.

Palem, Pls see my previous post for a suggestion. I actually had hoped you would respond to it. Here is a short clip:

I think you may have missed it cause I posted it as you were typing up your post.

Now that I'm thinking about it, your question isn't even directed at the right people/there is an obvious answer to your question: That stuff from the past didn't really affect BB. That's what's different between SWEA and Emeriti. In this case, they are directly affected by the razing, so it makes complete sense for them to get involved. If you want to ask why people are making "alliances" to combat ****play now, on principled grounds, then you should be asking the non-BB kingdoms who are currently involved on BB's side...

So BB's official stance is that it's ok to ****play, as long as you don't ****play BB?

[SlightlyOverdosed]

Some in emeriti thought that he should raze to force cf talks if he was being ignored or rejected. I don't disagree with you.

Ok.

Technically he waited 4 hours. We agree this was too short. In that 4 hours though, he had his request read by the steward and ignored. He then sent new messages to all the BB prvinces who were online asking them to get a leader to contact him urgently. These messages were also read and not responded to.

You are right, his messages were read and ignored, and we all agree he did act with too much haste. However, would it really have made any difference to the fundamental question if he waited longer for his messages to be ignored or if his cf request was rejected outright? If he waited 24h instead of 4h for multiple messages to be read and ignored, then would hitting and offering the land back plus extra for a cf been ok?

The post I originally replied to stated that bour razed because his messages were ignored. I've said that it's dishonest to call it that if he waited for only 3-4 hours. Even if they were opened.
No had he waited 12 hours before razing that would not make it justifiable in my eyes, yet saying diplomacy attempts were "ignored" have held more merit.

The longer he waited, the more time BB had to prepare and then train up. His only leverage was catching BB as early after their explore as he could so that BB couldn't just train and farm him.

There is a SoM op to check that, has he before razing? Were BB training up to raze him? Not too difficult to track nw for potential provs to SoM, Seems like there were only few in range anyway.

You can decide to call it that but that's really not what it was. You didn't see the talk about Bour being excited to be #1. You didn't see all the discussion about Emeriti not being happy to be cf'd with "farms" when BB wasn't. The player you say commanded hits in 3h is not even an Emeriti leader and Bour has NEVER taken commands from this player. Advice, perhaps, although technically he hit 4h later after being ignored.

Fair enough, I have no absolute truth nor wisdom, I may be in the wrong. You are resorting to asking me for trust and to believe your word, even while the evidence point the other way.

And where do you play? Why is it you try and criticize my posts that actually are factual while you don't criticize the blatant lies including fabrication of fake logs by BB's side?

There is a reason there is a saying in the court to say "all the truth"
While you're not lying you do omit and obscure whatever you don't like.

I would gladly criticize bombdigie in that thread, alas I don't post often and so I didn't. I have however got sucked into this thread (replying to someone else).
As stated before, I see both parties guilty of some things. What you mentioned about BB deal breaking and so on, I can criticize this as well, if you wish.

But see I wasn't criticizing Emerity council / bour for the razes into eowcf, same as I haven't said much about BB dealbreak. I was stating my dislike for the way you twist words to obfuscate reality.
You aren't lying, but not telling the truth either.

As for bombdigie, you can't expect leadership to control the words of every grunt in their "alliance". Unless you have evidence he was directed by his leadership?
In fact you don't:

I don't know what random players posted in your war forum, but no, Emeriti leadership does not believe there is anything wrong with exploring in post war.

Bottom line: I'm not judging who's good guy and who's the bad. But it so happened that stars aligned and I found myself saying I find low propaganda tasteless.

[Korp]

That's actually not the case. Even if you had no intention of honor any of your deals, you convinced a small group of kingdoms to help you achieve your goals (unbeknownst to them). BB and Emeriti have convinced a small group of kingdoms to help them achieve their goal (with absolutely no benefit to the supporting kingdoms). You act like if you screw someone over in YR2 they can't agree to help you do something in YR12.

Also, I know Anri just fine. That's why SWEA's crown was so impressive, at least in my eyes.

Oh please stop your speculating. We didnt convince anyone, there was no need. AMA did a very fine job of making their own enemies. I am not saying it wasnt very good for us, but that ganbang on AMA would have had happend with our without our involvement. Even then, AMA if they wanted could have easily poached the crowns from us but Elit stood by his principles.

As said previously you lack a lot of information to make any sound claims on this matter.

[AquaSeaFoam]

SlightlyOverdosed,

People already complain my posts are too long. You say I am omiting things, but I'm not sure what those things are. I've stated many times that Emeriti messed up in advising bour to get a cf by razing BB if they wouldn't cf him. It's BB's side that likes to omit things like that bour offered all land back plus extra right from the start even before Bb contacted him. They don't like to mention that Bour also offered them free gold to prep for Emeriti and they don't like to mention that Emeriti also offered them more free land and whatever else they needed.

[Akkadian/Taylor]

SlightlyOverdosed,

People already complain my posts are too long. You say I am omiting things, but I'm not sure what those things are. I've stated many times that Emeriti messed up in advising bour to get a cf by razing BB if they wouldn't cf him. It's BB's side that likes to omit things like that bour offered all land back plus extra right from the start even before Bb contacted him. They don't like to mention that Bour also offered them free gold to prep for Emeriti and they don't like to mention that Emeriti also offered them more free land and whatever else they needed.

i'm gonna go rob a gas station and just tell them that i'll pay it back + interest, so they shouldn't call the cops or anything.

[Palem]

Oh please stop your speculating. We didnt convince anyone, there was no need. AMA did a very fine job of making their own enemies. I am not saying it wasnt very good for us, but that ganbang on AMA would have had happend with our without our involvement. Even then, AMA if they wanted could have easily poached the crowns from us but Elit stood by his principles.

As said previously you lack a lot of information to make any sound claims on this matter.

What am I speculating? Are you more informed in the diplo that your monarch did than your monarch. I'll quote it again

Mansoor meanwhile talked to pewpew, simians and haswell telling them that only way for SWEA to crown is to raze the infidels in AMA.

[AquaSeaFoam]

i'm gonna go rob a gas station and just tell them that i'll pay it back + interest, so they shouldn't call the cops or anything.

Yes that's floggers argument he has used to help all those who already were happy to gb Emeriti to feel good about themselves while doing it.

Does anyone here really think that a ghetto prov trying to obtain a cf by hitting a kingdom and immediately offering extra land back in Utopia is the same as robbing a gas station in rl? If what he did was a real crime, then he'd have been deleted. He didn't deal break (he was trying to GET a deal, not break one.)

[DoOrDie]

Im just saying bour's pretty much lied about everything so far this age, so I'd be careful hitching your horse to him saying he messaged 5 dudes, if I had to guess he didnt

In fact, I haven't lied about anything. I have been truthful to everything that happend and I recognized my wrongs.

[Korp]

What am I speculating? Are you more informed in the diplo that your monarch did than your monarch. I'll quote it again

So speaking to kingdoms is all it takes to be allies for you? Interesting, ofc Mansoor added fuel to the fire but you give him too much credit if you think he was the mastermind behind it all. All those kds were pissed off at AMA on their own.

[Crunch]

cts are simple once you remove asf web of lies.

asf kd, emeriti, fake rage, abs whatever you want to call them. This kd is made up of the dirtiest players in the game. So many of them are guilty of continuous cheating and manipulation for game rules age after age. They orchestrated the entire **** play on bb. they deliberately planed and had their ghetto abs friend hit bb in eowcf and push them to react and than immediately began spewing their lies to the cover up.

This abs kd is loaded with cheaters and players with the lowest ethical play in the game.

They started the whole thing. there are now pages of lies under numerous threads all though our the forum.

If zauper, munk or anyone else really disagreed with what went down they should have left.

The only solution is complete annihilation of every abs player and sympathizer on the server.

anyone who thinks this can be handled though diplo is fooling themselves it will only rear it's ugly head next age again.. just kill it and be done with it.

[flogger]

Yes that's floggers argument he has used to help all those who already were happy to gb Emeriti to feel good about themselves while doing it.

Does anyone here really think that a ghetto prov trying to obtain a cf by hitting a kingdom and immediately offering extra land back in Utopia is the same as robbing a gas station in rl? If what he did was a real crime, then he'd have been deleted. He didn't deal break (he was trying to GET a deal, not break one.)

I don't know, gas stations get knocked off all the time. Can't rememember any top kingdoms getting targetted in end of war in the past 7 years straight I've played.

[flogger]

Also, enough with offering gold back. It took us about a day to find out it was emeriti. 24 hours of premature drafting is worth about 50 million gcs kingdom wide. Bourreau couldn't give us 50 mil back. Before that we were just drafting to kill Bour ourselves.

[AquaSeaFoam]

I don't know, gas stations get knocked off all the time. Can't rememember any top kingdoms getting targetted in end of war in the past 7 years straight I've played.

I can't help your bad memory. Has happened a lot.

The better example here would be something more like you're sitting at the dinner table eating your pizza and someone asks you to pass the red pepper. You are busy in conversation and ignore them. They ask the guy next to you to get your attention but still the red pepper is not passed. Another guy suggests that the guy wanting the pepper grab your pizza to get your attention. Finally the guy grabs your slice of pizza out of your hand and offers to give it back plus a piece of his own pizza if you'll pass the red pepper. Instead of passing the pepper, you throw over the dinner table and refuse the apologies and offers to buy you a whole new pizza by the guy who took your slice of pizza and the guy who suggested it.

Also, enough with offering gold back. It took us about a day to find out it was emeriti. 24 hours of premature drafting is worth about 50 million gcs kingdom wide. Bourreau couldn't give us 50 mil back. Before that we were just drafting to kill Bour ourselves.

I call BS on this. All of it. Not only did you know it was Bour quite early, but it was also irrelevant to whether you just accepted the free land he offered you right from the start BEFORE you drafted anything.

[tetley]

So BB's official stance is that it's ok to ****play, as long as you don't ****play BB?

Is your real contention that BB has ****played Emeriti?
I would suggest that when you ask someone to raze into another KDs eowcf, you open the door to punishment, i.e. being razed into war and eowcf yourself... or should they have turned the other cheek according to you?

[AquaSeaFoam]

Is your real contention that BB has ****played Emeriti?
I would suggest that when you ask someone to raze into another KDs eowcf, you open the door to punishment, i.e. being razed into war and eowcf yourself... or should they have turned the other cheek according to you?

tetley, aren't you a lawyer? Shouldn't you know that not lieing and keeping deals are important? Flogger admits to making a deal with Emeriti with the intention all along of breaking it. He then intentionally and fully violated the deal without warning. He sent a dragon into a kingdom in real war against his ally. He then full waved into that war and started raze killing chains. This is clearly ****play to the highest degree. You're blowing a guy razing into post war and offering all land back plus extra for his own cf way out of proportion.

Flogger was not deal broke and he was immediately offered all land back and more by the prov who did it. They later agreed to give 2.8x the land back to BB. Emeriti also apologized and offered BB whatever free land BB felt needed along with whatever cf adjustment BB felt needed to ensure they were not harmed relative to Emeriti. Do you know what "turn the other cheek" means? If so, you should know this was nothing like that at all.