On utopia: A call to arms

[flogger]

So my kingdom has been asking me to make a post where we can consolidate all talk and say why we did what we did and why we felt it was correct. Lets make this as short as it can be.

We war OOP. We big. We explore to match the #1 kd so we can war 1 on 1. We know its abs. Leshrak messages us for CF and it seems as if we won't agree to me, and then this happens:




jdorje 5:59 PM what total size will they be?

leshrak 5:59 PM 2.2, 2.1, 1.7
it's only 15k solds per prov
they released most of their core military
1 soldier/acre for the whole kd
cheap

jdorje 6:09 PM
soooo
back to the idea of waving them right now
we dont like this idea still?

leshrak 6:10 PM
i dunno
flogger offered yr2 cf
not yr6

cerberusv6.66 6:14 PM
Waving right now? I don't mind the idea so much.

zauper 6:15 PM
I don't love waving into eow?
Is it the example you want to set for acceptable play?I don't...

leshrak 6:16 PM
don't sit on 10 dpa in eowcf?

jdorje 6:17 PM
not really the example we want to set for acceptable play, no

leshrak 6:17 PM
they could be razed by 400a provs right now

jdorje 6:17 PM
if he's going to farm bour next
it's bour that should be razing them

leshrak 6:17 PM
slaps bour around a bit with a large trout

cerberusv6.66 6:18 PM
eh
not sure how I feel about that

jdorje 6:19 PM
if we cf them, bour is dead
and that is bad for us
so if i were bour i'd go get the cf now
with threats of postwar hitting if they refuse

cerberusv6.66 6:20 PM
true

cerberusv6.66 7:18 PM
so eh
are we done planning?
as in, we didn't?

jdorje 7:26 PM
do we raze stables to pump?
for almost a 3 day pump?

cerberusv6.66
stables

cerberusv6.66 7:33 PM
EH
okay
let's think aboutthis. Will we want them for a fight?
we'll have like 1.5k ospecs or something

jdorje 7:34 PM
obviously we'd like them

cerberusv6.66 7:34 PM
so 25% offensive increase for that
and 16% increase for our elites

jdorje 7:34 PM
are they better than 10% more forts for a fight PLUS ~45 hours of banks?
do we want homes for this pump?
i'm guessing we do

cerberusv6.66 7:34 PM
I think we lose them, and I think we want homes
if we're going to fight, we need to go all in on the preparation
before, wehn it looked like it was just one big prov, it looked a lot less scary
things as they stand look very loseable for us
so yeah, we need to do as much as possible. I' not sure what is optimal for said preparation though
but I don't think we want stables while we're preparing

bour 7:41 PM
msged BB ingame
Off. Points 66,646

cerberusv6.66 7:42 PM
gonna get that cf?

bour 7:42 PM
will try to get it

cerberusv6.66 7:42 PM
give them at most 3 hours to respond
start killing if they don't answer or try to delay
imo

bour 7:44 PM
the guy has 12k defense
lol


My take is quite simple. The game is dead. We were going to be 32k acres, emeriti was going to be 32k acres. Everyone else was tiny.

When ASF says "is this what you want at the top" Everyone big knows us. I would like to trust that everyone in the top knows that such a chat in my council would never even take place. The sheer notion of using your retirement ghetto to take out the only competition makes me fairly convinced that this kingdom simply doesn't and will never have what it takes to be in a position of power in this watered down era, they simply want to win at all costs.

From CJ in sillies to Godly and Elit in the expendables to everyone in Sleepy and Jerks and the entire server who has dealt with us, I feel that everyone can be in 100% comfort that if you ever decided to try and grow, we would do nothing of this sort other than only fight you if you were around our size and if you had time to prepare for that fight.

So here's my call to arms: We and I are not quitting. If we lose this age, we are coming back next age and doing this again, as I imagine they would do if they were to lose.

Assuming this goes until one side gives up, and I've played for 22 straight ages and ASF has played pretty much non-stop since age 4, I can understand those that want to be neutral and stay out. If you join one side or the other its clear both sides have shown a record for stubborness throughout the ages.

What I want everyone to ask themselves is "Who do I think I trust to be the winner" Based on these logs and everyone's experience with abs in control of the server and based on their experience with how we handle ourselves in a position of power, to anri, to elit, to godly, to CJ, who do you want to walk out the winner?

Don't be neutral, I would implore you to pick a side and get involved with how you honestly think. If more people think the way we handle ourselves is wrong, I can't say I'd agree, but I'll accept that.

If abs wins, it will be like everything else in the past 10 years or so since they got disbanded the last time. If abs loses, it will be because of you. So that being said, if you want to help, message me or protector or anyone in Beastblood and we'll tell you how you can help.

I'm on record that I'm not stopping until one of us wins, because I don't think the above logs deserves any spot in our game at the top anymore.

[flogger]

Does anyone really read the above logs and fall for the Abs spin from ASF that its simply Absalom "encouraging to get a ceasefire" The entire concept of hitting us in EoW was devised by their monarch and steward, dorje and leshrak. The entire concept of us "ignoring the message" is bull**** clearly. There are likely a million posts made in the past 3 weeks that can be specifically identified as just bull**** spin.

You won't see any of that from me.

[AquaSeaFoam]

Yes, Emeriti was wrong in encouraging bour to aggressively try and secure his CF with BB. They were afraid and paranoid that you would farm him out. I admitted to Emeriti's role in what happened and I made a private and public apology for it.

Bour ingame messaged for a cf first to your leaders and the steward read the message and did not respond. Bour then ingame messaged the ~4 online players in BB asking them to please have a leader contact him urgently. These messages were also read and ignored. BB was sitting on in range land to farm Bour, but was on near 0 military. The fear (fed by the ignored cf requests) was that BB would continue ignoring him until after BB trained up and by then it would be too late for bour and he'd be farmed. This was the reason Bour made the mistake of razing BB and sending another message offering all razed land back plus interest for a cf. When BB said that it'd hinder their position vs Emeriti, Bour then offered BB to farm GC and a fake hostile to protect BB from Emeriti while BB trained up. Bour would have helped BB be in a better position vs Emeriti than without him if only BB would have agreed to give him the cf.

You rejected Bours initial offers but you later agreed to a deal with Bour and Bour gave you 2.8x the land back that he razed and agreed to your size caps so he couldn't grow too big or aim for the #1 prov again. Emeriti offered you land directly from Emeriti in addition to the 2.8x land that Bour gave you back. Emeriti also offered you adjustment of the cf deal you made with them and whatever other things BB felt would fully repair their position.

In short, you had a full apology (in private and public) and you had offers of full reparations from both Bour and Emeriti directly and there was simply no reason for you to do what you did instead.

You have told me in private that it was your goal to beat Absalom in an alliance war before you retired form the game. It's well known that you have planned to retire for a while now and it was no secret that you planned for this to be your last age. You also told me directly that from the moment you found out that Emeriti knew Bour that you were already set on an alliance war.

Flogger: "Our whole leadership chan shows our intention to dealbreak the second we knew it was bourreau"
Flogger: "We were going to cf becayse i cant draft early and kill (bour) at the same time"
ASF: "So my point is that if you knew who it was when you made the deal and you planned to deal break from the time you knew who it was, then you made the deal with the intention of breaking it"
Flogger: "Of course, 100% no Denial"
Flogger: "And when we had the logs i knew id win an awar"
Flogger: "Then i made the forum post of "q for emeriti'"

The reality is that yes, Emeriti messed up in advising a friend to force a cf with BB. But the reality is also that Emeriti apologized for it and offered their own land and other terms in addition to the 2.8x land back that Bour gave BB to ensure BB was not hurt by what happened. BB admits that they planned alliance war from the second they knew it was bour. It is clear that no amount of fairness or reasonable offers to fix the situation were acceptable since flogger knew he could win an awar against Emeriti which was the closest thing left to Absalom.

There is example after example of worse things happening in Utopia than a guy trying to force a cf and razing and immediately offering all land back for a cf. Your ally Pyro has been involved in many of them recently and so have you flogger in the past. Yet when these other kingdoms do things, it's rare for one to even apologize for it, let alone offer full generous reparations.

[scheffie]

Question to ASF: why are u constantly defending while i recall u were not playing this age. I also recall i have seen u making apologies but never saw any other leadership doing that or bourreau. Mostly apologies only have some value if they offered by the offenders. Let me know if I am wrong.

[Palem]

I'm not sure if this is target sharing or not...I'll let Bishop make that call.

That being said...

So here's my call to arms: We and I are not quitting. If we lose this age, we are coming back next age and doing this again, as I imagine they would do if they were to lose.

Don't be neutral, I would implore you to pick a side and get involved with how you honestly think.

I'm on record that I'm not stopping until one of us wins, because I don't think the above logs deserves any spot in our game at the top anymore.

Does it seriously not bother anyone else that this sounds nothing like flogger?

[Band of Horses]

I'm not sure if this is target sharing or not...I'll let Bishop make that call.

That being said...


Does it seriously not bother anyone else that this sounds nothing like flogger?

Sounds like flogger the last time he had to cut the head off the absnake.

[DoOrDie]

Question to ASF: why are u constantly defending while i recall u were not playing this age. I also recall i have seen u making apologies but never saw any other leadership doing that or bourreau. Mostly apologies only have some value if they offered by the offenders. Let me know if I am wrong.

Did I screw up? Yes. Was it wrong? Yes. Am I sorry? Yes. Did I intend to give back all the acres + compensation even before the razes started? Yes.

I'm the offender, that was on may 23.

[citadela01]

I dont understand why would anybody not want to be part of this. Such a nice change of pace from standard boring utopia.
What's the alternative ? Try to win some meaningless crown or break personal best by 100 honor or acres ? pfft ... at best you can claim "most meaningless age win" title from warcry

As far as sides go ... eh ... evil empire is evil empire, it might have gone undercover but as you can see from logs its still here

[tak3shi]

I dont understand why would anybody not want to be part of this. Such a nice change of pace from standard boring utopia.
What's the alternative ? Try to win some meaningless crown or break personal best by 100 honor or acres ? pfft ... at best you can claim "most meaningless age win" title from warcry

As far as sides go ... eh ... evil empire is evil empire, it might have gone undercover but as you can see from logs its still here

that's because you play the same way every single age LOL

[citadela01]

that's because you play the same way every single age LOL

that could be truth. Being part of independent KD with same goals age after age of ww/honor you tend to fall into a rut.

Not everyone has a luxury of being a tool used in ever so creative ways by third party.

[flogger]

I dont understand why would anybody not want to be part of this. Such a nice change of pace from standard boring utopia.
What's the alternative ? Try to win some meaningless crown or break personal best by 100 honor or acres ? pfft ... at best you can claim "most meaningless age win" title from warcry

As far as sides go ... eh ... evil empire is evil empire, it might have gone undercover but as you can see from logs its still here

That's why I made the post. message me what can be done. ASF has already joined sleepy to get them on their side. I've got a handful of kdmates looking to play in a new kd, so if you're looking for a handfull of players to fill out the kd and looking for some leaders, hit me up. If you don't like abs, message me.

I haven't played in BB all age and have managed to lead them without even playing there, I've become quite good at it. I could probably lead 5-10 kds myself micromanging them. If you believe I'm right, lets chat. If you don't like abs, lets chat. There are people with 2k defense to kill. Even if you're a faery in a ghetto you can help.

[flogger]

FYI - I didn't read ASF's post, it was too long.

[citadela01]

heh ... iam allrdy fighting on your side, but if independant ppl recognize their own opinion in my post I encourage them to contact you =)

[flogger]

Does it seriously not bother anyone else that this sounds nothing like flogger?

It sounds exactly like me, I just poke you every now and then because more often than not I disagree strongly with your takes. So I like don't agree with you ever but like don't take that against me, mmmmmkay? We can bond on our mutual love of T Swift.

[Verminator]

The word "mmmmmkay" has been outdated for years now, could we please move on from it? It's not funny anymore, it's just weird.