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Thread: thank you devs

  1. #16
    I like to post Sheister's Avatar
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    This is hardly a investment for them, they have no need for it to make "good money" or such. As long as it doesnt bleed them money will keep it up. So in the end its more of a favor to us rather than a investment. Cause lets face it, its a poor investment. :)
    Did they purchase a business using money and then sell advertising space on a per click reimbursement basis? Then it is an investment. It is clearly a commercial activity. I never said the investment had to make a lot of money. I never said it had to meet any benchmark. I said there were different ways of treating an asset you invest in. Clearly the developers have made choices with respect to this asset that do not involve spending lots of time or money on it. (No judgement as to the prudence of that choice).

    I have no idea what you mean by "good money". I would think that the developers would like to receive some form of return on their investment. If it is merely the gratitude of players, that is very kind of them. However, I think they would like to receive something more or else they would not have integrated commercial features into the game. I suspect that they had hoped to receive more passive income from the asset than they current receive and now that they do not meet those targets are not really serious about investing the time/money in improving the asset to see if it can improve returns (or, and lets me real about this, their wives/significant others are not, since often additional funds for development come from personal sources and I know few partners who would be willing to invest money in a game when it could otherwise go to things like a mortgage).


    You called them "completely negligent" and even implied that they might be "thieves", lol. Such warm and fuzzy sentiments of gratitude!
    I did not imply that they might be thieves. I said that freezing the game without restoring credits to those that invested them would (or did i say could?) be theft (although it could also be a form of consumer fraud given that people actually pay for the credits. So something like $0.25 * # of individuals in the class impacted, max $1,000ish if EVERYONE invested a credit in sitting (which is impossible)). If they restored the credits, then no theft or fraud has occurred. I have not followed up on that though.

    They were negligent. It is common knowledge that code is sensitive to small typographical errors. Not reviewing the changes that you make to coding prior to publishing and taking steps to ensure that the coding was correct is negligence. Of course, the damages for it are limited (given the aforementioned credit aspect and that no one else was financially impacted and I suspect you are unlikely to obtain any recovery related to non-economic damages in this case).

    So telling the truth is I guess something other than warm and fuzzy, but I guess that can't be helped.
    Last edited by Sheister; 06-09-2015 at 14:49.
    "having fun warring when you have whoring and number 1 as a goal is totally pointless..." - Korp
    "while I heart shiester when we both play serious and are in the same kingdom, I hate shiester on the forums and pretty much disagree with everything he says. Even he knows this." - Flogger asking me out on a date

    The devs have made a decision to kill competitive utopia and have thereby killed my interest with it.

  2. #17
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    Did they purchase a business using money and then sell advertising space on a per click reimbursement basis? Then it is an investment. It is clearly a commercial activity. I never said the investment had to make a lot of money. I never said it had to meet any benchmark. I said there were different ways of treating an asset you invest in. Clearly the developers have made choices with respect to this asset that do not involve spending lots of time or money on it. (No judgement as to the prudence of that choice).
    Afaik, they didnt buy Utopia at all, they just grabbed it after that huge failure with Jolt.

  3. #18
    I like to post Sheister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korp View Post
    Afaik, they didnt buy Utopia at all, they just grabbed it after that huge failure with Jolt.
    If that is true, then I am mistaken as to their skin in the game. I bet that they still would like the game to make a return though and it is still an asset of theirs which could be treated as I described. If it was scooped up to "save it" from extinction, then thats great. Perhaps it is time to hand it over to someone like munk who seems to find time to code all sorts of things and has an interest in such things. I suspect however that they would want some funds for the transfer and I suspect that the person taking over would need to decide if they really wanted to invest funds in the asset.
    "having fun warring when you have whoring and number 1 as a goal is totally pointless..." - Korp
    "while I heart shiester when we both play serious and are in the same kingdom, I hate shiester on the forums and pretty much disagree with everything he says. Even he knows this." - Flogger asking me out on a date

    The devs have made a decision to kill competitive utopia and have thereby killed my interest with it.

  4. #19
    Post Demon Chrystal Palace's Avatar
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    sheister why even post in here? you are a negative dude. this was meant to be positive. a sincere thank you. for real man do you have to ruin everything with your bull****?
    All for one and one for Chrystal!!

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheister View Post
    If that is true, then I am mistaken as to their skin in the game. I bet that they still would like the game to make a return though and it is still an asset of theirs which could be treated as I described. If it was scooped up to "save it" from extinction, then thats great. Perhaps it is time to hand it over to someone like munk who seems to find time to code all sorts of things and has an interest in such things. I suspect however that they would want some funds for the transfer and I suspect that the person taking over would need to decide if they really wanted to invest funds in the asset.
    But how fun does it come when it becomes a job rather than a hobby? But obviously they wouldnt give it away for free, the game has still value. And yes its obvious that they there is some kind of return as said previousoly they would probably not keep it going if it bleed their money.

  6. #21
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    Funny, how even in here a THANK YOU their is so much butt hurt. :((
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheister View Post
    I did not imply that they might be thieves. I said that freezing the game without restoring credits to those that invested them would (or did i say could?) be theft (although it could also be a form of consumer fraud given that people actually pay for the credits. So something like $0.25 * # of individuals in the class impacted, max $1,000ish if EVERYONE invested a credit in sitting (which is impossible)). If they restored the credits, then no theft or fraud has occurred. I have not followed up on that though.

    They were negligent. It is common knowledge that code is sensitive to small typographical errors. Not reviewing the changes that you make to coding prior to publishing and taking steps to ensure that the coding was correct is negligence. Of course, the damages for it are limited (given the aforementioned credit aspect and that no one else was financially impacted and I suspect you are unlikely to obtain any recovery related to non-economic damages in this case).

    So telling the truth is I guess something other than warm and fuzzy, but I guess that can't be helped.
    Dont forget to add punitive damages to your imaginary lawsuit, for all your pain and suffering... -.-

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felonious View Post
    Dont forget to add punitive damages to your imaginary lawsuit, for all your pain and suffering... -.-
    Speaking of butthurtness....

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korp View Post
    Speaking of butthurtness....
    Hardly. I just think its funny that he's forever trying to lawyer Uto

  10. #25
    Post Demon Chrystal Palace's Avatar
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    This is why we can't have nice things. :(
    All for one and one for Chrystal!!

  11. #26
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    You guys are funny.

  12. #27
    I like to post Sheister's Avatar
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    Chrystal,

    I am not a negative person. I am an objective person.

    Felonious,

    meh. it is what it is. (fyi, that is what non-economic damages are.....)

    Korp,

    One would hope people go into the professions they pick in part because they enjoy them. I bet if you asked a number of people here who play computer games if they would like to have a job in computer gaming they would say "yes." Of course there are parts that are unfun (someone has to work in the Valve accounting department, someone has to answer the telephones, etc.). There are parts of everything that are unfun. Thats what makes the fun part better. I am sure in a certain sense that if my KD does well this age despite all the early age frustrations that it will make doing well that much more satisfying. Just the same, no one wants the frustrations. However, I do believe that part of the reason the devs took on this game was to be able to make this their job. You think they did not actually purchase the game, and perhaps you are right, but I think I read before that they did.
    "having fun warring when you have whoring and number 1 as a goal is totally pointless..." - Korp
    "while I heart shiester when we both play serious and are in the same kingdom, I hate shiester on the forums and pretty much disagree with everything he says. Even he knows this." - Flogger asking me out on a date

    The devs have made a decision to kill competitive utopia and have thereby killed my interest with it.

  13. #28
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    Korp,

    One would hope people go into the professions they pick in part because they enjoy them. I bet if you asked a number of people here who play computer games if they would like to have a job in computer gaming they would say "yes." Of course there are parts that are unfun (someone has to work in the Valve accounting department, someone has to answer the telephones, etc.). There are parts of everything that are unfun. Thats what makes the fun part better. I am sure in a certain sense that if my KD does well this age despite all the early age frustrations that it will make doing well that much more satisfying. Just the same, no one wants the frustrations. However, I do believe that part of the reason the devs took on this game was to be able to make this their job. You think they did not actually purchase the game, and perhaps you are right, but I think I read before that they did.
    You obviously never had a full time work with your hobby. ITs a hobby for reason, when it comes a must it becomes boring in the end. Its not longer "I can do it when i feel like it". What is computer gaming to you ? You seem to think what they do in Valve is playing videogames all day?

    Both Sean and Brian are quite sucessfull in their field, they dont need this as their job. I mean Jolt was sold for between 12-20 million, Sean co-created Demonware, which is a huge thing. etc. :P

  14. #29
    I like to post Sheister's Avatar
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    No, I don't think that they just play games at valve all day. That is why I referred to two of the more distasteful tasks that happen at valve every day (at least to me they are distasteful).

    I ran two businesses that were initially hobbies for me. Both did....well I would like to say well, but the truth is both did poorly enough that I still had to work at other things. I think given the limited appeal of the hobby, they did OK, but that is just trying to comfort myself I think. I did not lose money on them, that is the only fact. The work part was fun though (excluding the administrative functions). I did close up shop on both when I saw the writing on the wall and could see that they would not continue making a small amount of money/breaking even in the future.

    I know NOTHING about sean and brian beyond a strong feeling (which is not really knowledge) that utopia is NOT their passion. If it were, I suspect the game would be in a better state.

    Please understand, I am NOT criticising sean and brian as people. They just do not seem to be into utopia. I don't blame them for that. There is no requirement that they are into utopia, etc. I make no assumptions about their creativity, success, intelligence, etc. All I can infer is that they are not really interested in this thing called utopia.

    *edit*

    You asked what computer gaming is to me. It is the place where I let out all the stuff that makes me crazy in my real job. In case you did not know it (though I suspect you do), this is the place where I purge my crazy.
    Last edited by Sheister; 06-09-2015 at 21:36.
    "having fun warring when you have whoring and number 1 as a goal is totally pointless..." - Korp
    "while I heart shiester when we both play serious and are in the same kingdom, I hate shiester on the forums and pretty much disagree with everything he says. Even he knows this." - Flogger asking me out on a date

    The devs have made a decision to kill competitive utopia and have thereby killed my interest with it.

  15. #30
    Post Demon DM_Benjamin's Avatar
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    Don't argue with Korp, it's too hard. Go outside and try and find the end of a rainbow instead.
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