Honor Gains

[Maximus778]

Ok so I wanted to start a topic on Honor gains.

Thieves and Mages gain honor from Dishonorable ops. I feel its too high per op...
Attackers can only gain Honor from Traditional March which is the ONLY HONORABLE operation...
I feel attackers should gain Honor from other attacks as well be it like 25% of that from Traditional Marches I mean TM's are the Highest Honor provinces in the world while attackers get the shaft... Losing 5 honor per op even if that op is crappy gains... i mean arson 1 acres gives 6 honor???????? That seems a bit broken to me. What do ya think Bishop? think thats fair?

[Korp]

Attackers gain 600 honor, you think thats fair?!

You fail to realize something, its not a static number its depending on different factors.

[Maximus778]

600 honor from what?

[Korp]

Ill quote from your own post since you seem to forget very fast what you write yourself.

Attackers can only gain Honor from Traditional March which is the ONLY HONORABLE operation...

[Maximus778]

how big do you have to be to gain 600 honor from one hit? i mean your just talking in general... there is no data... I mean lets put this into perspective...

120 acre hit gained about 75 honor in war... Get op'd 20 times Lose 80 Honor... Takes longer to make another hit... but less time to make more ops which is unbalanced.

[Korp]

how big do you have to be to gain 600 honor from one hit? i mean your just talking in general... there is no data... I mean lets put this into perspective...

120 acre hit gained about 75 honor in war... Get op'd 20 times Lose 80 Honor... Takes longer to make another hit... but less time to make more ops which is unbalanced.

Honor works like this, the more honor you have the more you will lose. If you're say a Viscount and get hit by a Knight you will lose tons of honor. But if you hit him you would gain very little.

Say you TM a T/M with good chunk of honor you're a Knight and hes a Viscount, you would probably get at least around 400 honor (Given within range etc) For him to take back that amount using your own numbers thats like 100 ops, he has to wait for mana/stealth to replenish and etc.

[Band of Horses]

If anything MS gives too much honor, should be = to prop. It's not :(

[bombdigie]

Is honor generated in war hits anymore? Was that taken out of the game?

[Palem]

Is honor generated in war hits anymore? Was that taken out of the game?

I think it's supposed to, but from tracking honor in my wars the last few ages if it does, it produces very, very little.

[smercjd]

I actually agree with the OP to some extent. Not that it's necessarily "unfair" or "broken" but just simply that it would be interesting if we could present attackers with a bit more of a way to gain/hold honor.

That said...giving the other attacks gains from honor is almost certainly not the way to go. It's the easiest way to break the honor system because you can just sit tiny and run plunders/learns the whole age and reach prince w/o any threat because you're not gaining acres. History books - Hel of Dim Forest. Then again, back then there was no cap to honor...so unlike HoDF, you would max at WH and not necessarily be broken by overwhelming honor bonuses.

I DO think that Ambush should give honor -- just like 1/2 acres gains, 1/2 honor gains as well - or maybe when you ambush you gain exactly 1/2 of the honor that was taken. Basically any attack involving acres should give honor.

Otherwise, I think it's fine. TMs can't gain honor oow. The occasional 1 honor here or there for casting land lust on a prince :p during UF...but that's really about it. Whereas attackers can REALLY benefit from oow hitting to gain honor. Also...IF an attack DOES manage to break that in range TM that's holding 7K honor, they will take like 800 in one hit. Which is pretty nuts.

I'm tired...I think the conclusion is -- ambush should give 1/2 honor that was taken -- OR -- generate NEW honor = to 1/2 of what was taken.

[Hustisya]

I think giving honor pts to all kinds of attacks is fair enough except anon.

Also imo honor pts gained on hits outside war is a bit too much. Imagine a kingdom can crown as most honorable by just waving into smaller kds while winning some few wars.

[StratOcastle]

I think giving honor pts to all kinds of attacks is fair enough except anon.

Also imo honor pts gained on hits outside war is a bit too much. Imagine a kingdom can crown as most honorable by just waving into smaller kds while winning some few wars.

Agreed on anon.

Now I've never pursued honor but I know the unsteady ground attackers have to tackle to retain honor. I get sniped all the time but I generally fight for land. Land is good for what ails you as long as you enjoy fighting for it. - I should mention I don't play in any whoring kingdoms.

[Persain]

how big do you have to be to gain 600 honor from one hit? i mean your just talking in general... there is no data... I mean lets put this into perspective...

i've seen a CONQUEST cost a prince 500 honor and a trad march take over 1000. The reason t/ms gain so much honor and keep it is that they rarely eat hits/ops compared to attackers.

In your example fyi

120 acre hit gained about 75 honor in war... Get op'd 20 times Lose 80 Honor... Takes longer to make another hit... but less time to make more ops which is unbalanced.

even at this rate you can be hitting every 10 hours for 7-8 honor/hour. 20 ops if broken down into stealth/mana is 10 ticks of mana+stealth. Your argument would acctually suggest an attacker gains honor at the same rate as a t/m.

And finally if

Attackers can only gain Honor from Traditional March

your attackers are only gaining honor via hitting your running really ****ty attackers. Every prov but a shell should be oping.

[StratOcastle]

No need for harsh tone. The OP is clearly frustrated but still shouldn't poke Bishop for a universal honor system. We all play by the same system.

And we shouldn't make it seem that attackers that don't op are in the minority. Persain, you run an organized kingdom that pumps and I'd imagine has relatively strict governance. Thus, your assessment of attacker effectiveness is based in your ability to lead and command of mechanics. Most aren't there. Your kingdom trusts that their sacrifices will be met by victories. If your answer is you have good people then the point is mute. Good people do good things, particularly as a team.

My opinion is that if you want to gain honor you should run a t/m or be fantastic. If I wanted honor I could pay attention and get it. The way you get honor as an attacker is to look at honor as a fluid investment. You have to take in more than you lose. The problems begin in kingdoms that are organized but ineffective. In other words, their control mechanisms are not working to improve the kingdom. They simply prove discipline. Example: wave means send out all your generals.

Out here in the field, meaning kingdoms where you're free, you can grab honor at your convenience. You have to contend with many more obstacles but to my mind this is where we learn independence. We can then take the gifts we have earned and apply them to teamwork instead of being a monoton like the majority. Organized kingdoms are often the death of imagination and adaptation. Once the plan is made the core gets sucked into another queue: opa/nw, bot, chat, chain, lower wages, congratulate the decision makers.

In the real world, let's say football; you have a head coach, a coordinator for each aspect, and a captain on the field. Each player has an assignment but it varies on how they assess the opposing team/player/scheme. Some players earn the right to follow their instincts. These are the people we should try to be if our love is core attacker.

In the war tier you have little room to move. But let's not be discouraged. My point is not profound, but to simply play like you're a cow.

[Band of Horses]

I think I may have figured out why Divinity farms out when whoring.