Honor Gains

[khronosschoty]

I think I may have figured out why Divinity farms out when whoring.

Because they are not _that_ good? Or why?

[Band of Horses]

Because they are not _that_ good? Or why?

Well that, and read persian's post.

[khronosschoty]

Well that, and read persian's post.

Could you link to his post?

[Band of Horses]

i've seen a CONQUEST cost a prince 500 honor and a trad march take over 1000. The reason t/ms gain so much honor and keep it is that they rarely eat hits/ops compared to attackers.

In your example fyi
even at this rate you can be hitting every 10 hours for 7-8 honor/hour. 20 ops if broken down into stealth/mana is 10 ticks of mana+stealth. Your argument would acctually suggest an attacker gains honor at the same rate as a t/m.

And finally if
your attackers are only gaining honor via hitting your running really ****ty attackers. Every prov but a shell should be oping.

Khrono- it's 3 posts above yours....

[Persain]

I think I may have figured out why Divinity farms out when whoring.

We do "poorly" in whoring not because of that post(which i get where your coming from) but because we never put the requirements on our people that the whoring kds do. This leads to us either falling behind in gc/science mid-late age or simply being out of position when the "big" fights happen. Well at least thats whats happened the 2 times we took real shots at the top via HoH and Beastblood...though the age beastblood "farmed" us our entire plan that age was to intra trad march down our attackers and gain a massive bank advantage to leverage into a win. Since we couldn't gain enough land via that strategy our setup wasnt even designed to compete and thus was kinda doomed anyway.

As to the honor issue

And we shouldn't make it seem that attackers that don't op are in the minority. Persain, you run an organized kingdom that pumps and I'd imagine has relatively strict governance. Thus, your assessment of attacker effectiveness is based in your ability to lead and command of mechanics. Most aren't there. Your kingdom trusts that their sacrifices will be met by victories. If your answer is you have good people then the point is mute. Good people do good things, particularly as a team.

this may be true but it doesn't negate the fact that attackers CAN gain honor just as fast if not faster than someone only doing ops. After my kds last war for example i was top 20 world honor as an undead (4100 honor)...and i started out war as a peasant, something no t/m can do via ops.

The reason it FEELS like ops give so much honor is that MOST attackers hit oor into people that are being chained and thus taking someone from 2500->800 honor in 10-15+ hits feels like u gain nothing for each hit. But try hitting a high honor t/m during war who is in nw range, you absolutely take more honor/hit than any oping is going to give. Alternatively oping oor has the same reduction in honor that attacking does, its simply that the poeple who are oping tend to op people who are closer to being in nw range. T/ms and hybrids tend to gain the most honor via declare waves NS/nm/MS/riots....or oping in nw range shelled targets who have little offense left.

[Zauper]

To further Persain's point, a few ages ago I got razekilled during a war, and by the time I was 3 days OOP, I was #1 honor with 10k+ honor. I didn't attack anyone with more honor than baron.

[2Utopian]

To further Persain's point, a few ages ago I got razekilled during a war, and by the time I was 3 days OOP, I was #1 honor with 10k+ honor. I didn't attack anyone with more honor than baron.

Huh...? Am I missing something? This doesn't sound remotely possible. Even if you were getting out 3 uniques a day for those 3 days you would need to be claiming over 900 honor per unique which best case is like 30% of a top end barons total honor? I must misunderstand...

[Persain]

Huh...? Am I missing something? This doesn't sound remotely possible. Even if you were getting out 3 uniques a day for those 3 days you would need to be claiming over 900 honor per unique which best case is like 30% of a top end barons total honor? I must misunderstand...

4 hits at 2 hits/day in 3 days is 24 hits. 10,000-1800= 8200 honor. 8200/24 = 341 honor per hit.
5 hits at 3 hits/day in 3 days is 45 hits. 8200/45= 182 honor/hit.

Both of those seem reasonable, even if 341/unique is a tad higher than i'd expect at his size.

[2Utopian]

Yeah I did the same math. It sounds unreasonable. I happen to have had 2900+ honor and was hit last night with 0 gbp unfriendly <-> unfriendly by a province in range +-10% nw and close kd nw. I lost around 100 honor on the hit.

[Persain]

Yeah I did the same math. It sounds unreasonable. I happen to have had 2900+ honor and was hit last night with 0 gbp unfriendly <-> unfriendly by a province in range +-10% nw and close kd nw. I lost around 100 honor on the hit.

out of war 1 taped i went from ~4050->~3750 so around 300 honor. Honor gains in war are higher so its very reasonable

[2Utopian]

this isn't really worth arguing over, but one of the constraints was no higher then baron honor, and your example is a count. Also, if it was in war, yes honor gains are higher, but that would assume no hits and no ops on him in our scenario.

[Zauper]

this isn't really worth arguing over, but one of the constraints was no higher then baron honor, and your example is a count. Also, if it was in war, yes honor gains are higher, but that would assume no hits and no ops on him in our scenario.

It was in war, the hits on me were significantly OOR as I was just OOP hitting provs with sci/wiz/etc and size difference made ops painful -- I had about 50 thieves and no wiz, for obvious reasons.

I posted a thread about it in suggestions at the time that I'm sure you could dig up.

5 hits per unique, avian with high rax. Essentially, I was hitting their provs that we had razekilled pre-war that had grown quite a bit but were still 5xable, or chained provs, who were all OOR for me and hitting our chained provs for gains. To Persain's post, I was gaining about 180 honor per hit as a result. This is probably harder now that I believe honor gains are penalized when topfeeding.

I wasn't 5xing a single prov, I was splitting my hits over multiple provs to optimize honor gains.

At the end of the war, I finally entered nw range for their bottom prov and lost about 2k honor in a few hits, still ended war between 10 and 12k though.

[Band of Horses]

It was in war, the hits on me were significantly OOR as I was just OOP hitting provs with sci/wiz/etc and size difference made ops painful -- I had about 50 thieves and no wiz, for obvious reasons.

I posted a thread about it in suggestions at the time that I'm sure you could dig up.

5 hits per unique, avian with high rax. Essentially, I was hitting their provs that we had razekilled pre-war that had grown quite a bit but were still 5xable, or chained provs, who were all OOR for me and hitting our chained provs for gains. To Persain's post, I was gaining about 180 honor per hit as a result. This is probably harder now that I believe honor gains are penalized when topfeeding.

I wasn't 5xing a single prov, I was splitting my hits over multiple provs to optimize honor gains.

At the end of the war, I finally entered nw range for their bottom prov and lost about 2k honor in a few hits, still ended war between 10 and 12k though.

And to this day you remain a prince in my heart.