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  1. #751
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    Why can't people accept that Spartans fked this diplo up thinking they have outsmart their opponents but have actually only outsmarted themselves. Those examples from the past doesn't mean they can't make wrong decisions now. So before going on further, can we consider that they made a mistake this time and are being punished for it. 50 pages of it and people are still trying to say how Spartans have been good last time. If your grandma was an olympic medalist in her youth, is she gonna outrun usain bolt now? geez
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  2. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heiney View Post
    Why can't people accept that Spartans fked this diplo up thinking they have outsmart their opponents but have actually only outsmarted themselves. Those examples from the past doesn't mean they can't make wrong decisions now. So before going on further, can we consider that they made a mistake this time and are being punished for it. 50 pages of it and people are still trying to say how Spartans have been good last time. If your grandma was an olympic medalist in her youth, is she gonna outrun usain bolt now? geez
    This actually how sparta feels (generalization, there are 25 of us). We fked this up and are paying for it. We are not the fking hell spawn that some people are tying to make us out to be. Really the whole history of our kd isn't super relevant. Like any kd we have a history that is both good and bad. I don't think the people supporting us are trying to say our move on divinity was great (maybe some of the super bitter ones lol) but we are getting flamed for having a history of being ****ty to all the kds we war which just aint true.

  3. #753
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    beans, the issue is that your leader does not think he did anything wrong. The only thing he says he did wrong is the timing.
    And even worse he is still getting y'all deeper and deeper into trouble by trying to play several kingdom leaders against each other.
    No one blames all of the players in Spartans. You are a tough warring kingdom and don't need this kind of foul play.
    I understand loyalty. I understand you want to support your leader. But blind loyalty leads to bad things.
    Utopia is set up as a monarchy but it also gives individuals the tools to take influence in the direction and methods the kingdom uses.
    Ask questions, demand answers, suggest things...if all that is not helping there is the politics tab.

    As long as you let Heaven/Bart represent you, you are supporting the things he says and does.

  4. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goodwitch View Post
    beans, the issue is that your leader does not think he did anything wrong. The only thing he says he did wrong is the timing.
    And even worse he is still getting y'all deeper and deeper into trouble by trying to play several kingdom leaders against each other.
    No one blames all of the players in Spartans. You are a tough warring kingdom and don't need this kind of foul play.
    I understand loyalty. I understand you want to support your leader. But blind loyalty leads to bad things.
    Utopia is set up as a monarchy but it also gives individuals the tools to take influence in the direction and methods the kingdom uses.
    Ask questions, demand answers, suggest things...if all that is not helping there is the politics tab.

    As long as you let Heaven/Bart represent you, you are supporting the things he says and does.
    I wont pretend I know all that is going on in diplo, i don't and don't really want to unless I'm invited to the table and have to catch up for real talks. My goal here is just to damp down the flames. Sparta is loyal to Bart, but not blindly loyal. The kd wanted revenge and a lot of us didnt know better then to try and get it this age, bart tried to do that for us but it was a mistake. We are not going to crucify him for trying to do something we wanted, even if it was a mistake. Bart should have realized we couldnt do anything this age and left it at that.

    As for how Bart plays diplo now, well he can play hardball. We got pushed so far and so much is being demanded of us in payment that it really doesnt matter if we give in or not. If we give in we cant do anything this age, and if we hold out we can't do anything this age. Why eat a dog**** sammich now when the deals we can get only benefit the people who are GBing with oow hits? If they want to take this to EOA and beyond they can, or if they want to deal they can. But just because we fkd up doesnt mean we are obligated to give in to any demand made of us. Any deal we take would have to be more desirable than just getting GBd till EOA right, otherwise why take a deal at all?

  5. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by beans View Post
    I wont pretend I know all that is going on in diplo, i don't and don't really want to unless I'm invited to the table and have to catch up for real talks. My goal here is just to damp down the flames. Sparta is loyal to Bart, but not blindly loyal. The kd wanted revenge and a lot of us didnt know better then to try and get it this age, bart tried to do that for us but it was a mistake. We are not going to crucify him for trying to do something we wanted, even if it was a mistake. Bart should have realized we couldnt do anything this age and left it at that.

    As for how Bart plays diplo now, well he can play hardball. We got pushed so far and so much is being demanded of us in payment that it really doesnt matter if we give in or not. If we give in we cant do anything this age, and if we hold out we can't do anything this age. Why eat a dog**** sammich now when the deals we can get only benefit the people who are GBing with oow hits? If they want to take this to EOA and beyond they can, or if they want to deal they can. But just because we fkd up doesnt mean we are obligated to give in to any demand made of us. Any deal we take would have to be more desirable than just getting GBd till EOA right, otherwise why take a deal at all?
    So, you made a mistake, you wronged two kds, time to make ammends?

    "just because we fked up doesnt mean we are obligated to give in to any demand made of us"

    How does that work? You wronged divinity, and then emeriti (you broke the cf), its on your kd to make it right.

  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaza945 View Post
    So, you made a mistake, you wronged two kds, time to make ammends?

    "just because we fked up doesnt mean we are obligated to give in to any demand made of us"

    How does that work? You wronged divinity, and then emeriti (you broke the cf), its on your kd to make it right.
    It is and it isn't. The fundamental problem right now is the difference of opinion on how bad what we did is. If we are DB devil spawn here to ruin UTO for ghettos and top kds alike then we must agree to their definition of what we did (DB), take a war loss, raze away half our honour, all after days and days of GB. Or if we are a good KD that made a bad mistake in (not a DB) pulling a ****ty move (on some one we had a grudge against but still not cool) and are sorry for it, trying to move on, maybe days and days of GB are enough. Or some sort of middle ground. IDK.

    I'm not going to say we didn't deserve any punishment. But we already suffered a lot and are getting pkd now. The whole "beating will continue until morale improves" approach isnt going to get any where with us. We have nothing to gain and nothing to lose and dont feel like we owe any one anything more then what has already been taken. If they feel we do owe more, well they have the power to take it so good for them.

    And as for "wronging" emerati that is clear BS. The cf with them was dead bc they told us it was dead. If you want to hate sparta at least hate us for legit reasons instead of piling BS ones on top of the legit ones.

  7. #757
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    So you also are of the opinion what you did wrong was doing what you did at the wrong time.
    You still are not admitting to any wrongdoing which would be a good first step to make others see you may be on a better path.

    Personally I think at least Bart if not the whole kingdom owe a lot of people apologies. Honest, heartfelt ones.
    For example Korp's kingdom for building up a province just to farm it later on and leaving them hanging.
    Divinity for nitpicking and deliberately stabbing their back.
    Emeriti for breaking CF because you assumed that is what they were going to do. Also for threatening and insulting them.
    Koalas who probably are under the impression you saved them, but you know that is not what happened here.
    CR, BB and FS for trying to pull them into this mess.
    Also a whole lot of people for insulting them in the process.
    I am sure there are more but those would definitely be a step in the right direction.

  8. #758
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    well yes, we should never have waved a kd that thought they had an EOA CF with us even if we thought they didnt. We should have just fixed the diplo and gone after them next age when everything would be fair game. I assumed the argument was "dont wave divinity when they think you are eoa cf" not "dont ever wave divinity."

    I am strongly opposed to any kind of deal that involves one party thinking something is true when the other party does not. That kind of **** is why I left utopia the first time, it pisses me off when I see it any where and it pisses me off the most when I see it in my own kd. I havn't been here long, but this is the first time I have seen bart pull a diplo move that was like that and I told him I didnt like it.

    Ya'll apparently want sincere apologies. Well I, on behalf of my kd have been in here a while now saying that we realize what we did was wrong and are sorry for it. This had nothing to do with diplo because I did not ask for anything in return, except for possibly getting flamed less in the forums. Just because we are not willing to give in to every demand made of us doesn't mean we are not sorry, it just means we are in a disagreement about what a reasonable punishment is for what we did.

    I don't expect any thing i say here to result in benefits for my kd. This is not diplo. But if people have any interest at all in what sparta was thinking, is thinking, and how we came to this unfortunate place I thought I should throw that in since we were getting talked about here any way.

    As far as I know (and im not following closely) diplomatic talks have shut down at this point, which is fine. Getting razed in silence is at least better then getting razed while arguing with people. If parties involved want to try restarting talks feel free to message me in game (burritopia). Otherwise lets just let the topic die and those who feel the need can take what they can from us in blood.

  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by beans View Post
    well yes, we should never have waved a kd that thought they had an EOA CF with us even if we thought they didnt. We should have just fixed the diplo and gone after them next age when everything would be fair game. I assumed the argument was "dont wave divinity when they think you are eoa cf" not "dont ever wave divinity."

    I am strongly opposed to any kind of deal that involves one party thinking something is true when the other party does not. That kind of **** is why I left utopia the first time, it pisses me off when I see it any where and it pisses me off the most when I see it in my own kd. I havn't been here long, but this is the first time I have seen bart pull a diplo move that was like that and I told him I didnt like it.

    Ya'll apparently want sincere apologies. Well I, on behalf of my kd have been in here a while now saying that we realize what we did was wrong and are sorry for it. This had nothing to do with diplo because I did not ask for anything in return, except for possibly getting flamed less in the forums. Just because we are not willing to give in to every demand made of us doesn't mean we are not sorry, it just means we are in a disagreement about what a reasonable punishment is for what we did.

    I don't expect any thing i say here to result in benefits for my kd. This is not diplo. But if people have any interest at all in what sparta was thinking, is thinking, and how we came to this unfortunate place I thought I should throw that in since we were getting talked about here any way.

    As far as I know (and im not following closely) diplomatic talks have shut down at this point, which is fine. Getting razed in silence is at least better then getting razed while arguing with people. If parties involved want to try restarting talks feel free to message me in game (burritopia). Otherwise lets just let the topic die and those who feel the need can take what they can from us in blood.
    I don't understand why Spartans are still complaining... If you guys think you have any chance of any crown still and that's why you want to 'make amends' with no punishment, you're dreaming
    BLUE your my boy!

  10. #760
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    Who the Hell is with who?

    I respect all the feelings, but I live with Sparta just like everyone else. The kingdoms I occupy aren't organized and I enjoy warring Sparta. Yeah, they get cranky about wave time declare but I think it greases the gears for fun warring.(we didn't have the activity to do our part)

    Not blaming folks for taking the game seriously, more just want happy feelings to prevail. It just feels to me like too many parties are wasting the age in a negative light. There's things to do.

    Off topic; are you the one I bounced on retal 3 ages ago? That was a timing thing.
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    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
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  11. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty87 View Post
    I don't understand why Spartans are still complaining... If you guys think you have any chance of any crown still and that's why you want to 'make amends' with no punishment, you're dreaming
    Did you read anything I wrote?

  12. #762
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    Don't kill. Make peace.


  13. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by beans View Post
    Did you read anything I wrote?
    Nope. Threads getting old. Dunno why people from Spartans are still here discussing it. Let the leaders sort it out and let's all move on
    BLUE your my boy!

  14. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty87 View Post
    Nope. Threads getting old. Dunno why people from Spartans are still here discussing it. Let the leaders sort it out and let's all move on

    Thats basically what I said. Diplo seems to not be happening so lets just get razed in silence.

  15. #765
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    The amount of new forum accounts created in this thread just to blindly defend Spartans is astonishing. Lol. Whose the guy with many vpns


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