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Thread: dear top of the warring tier

  1. #46
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    Land dropping is lame fo real


    The Jerks.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aranfein View Post
    Protector your right, we have kept same lineup for many ages now, and although i dont play right now, im counting on playing next and i might decide to give growth a try if the kingdom wants to, but for me it wasnt so much the growth thats an issue or the way the wars are, i fairly like the wars like that and though i hadnt been in it for quite some time, i felt i did a good job leading a kd with only 2 former growth players (both just core players), it was a big challenge to try and sort everything as i was leading on my own and there simply wasnt any around with the experience/knowledge to help if i was busy, I had to relay on outside help (Thanks Panda & cJ), these both offered to step in a guide if i was busy, even offered to help run a war, now i didnt accept that as i wanted to refresh but same time teach my players how it is.

    Sure we made our mistakes and had bad blood with a few, but instead of discouraging like it was the case last age from flogger etc, the acknowledgement of someone trying to bring more challenge in the top should be supported rather then shot down, and you have to give space for mistakes, without threatening to PK the whole KD just cause you dont like what you see.

    I felt my KD was extremely hard done by seeing we didnt actually break any rules nor farm out to anyone, yes the notice was a mistake and flogger did say it was and asked me to change it, i didnt because i still felt i was in my right and i learned not to do it again.. but not from the threats or the bull, instead that just discouraged me from bothering again and i took a step back this age, where you likely could have had another KD up there had we not been given a bunch of abuse for trying and making a few mistakes there wasnt actually any rule about other then flogger/bb didnt agree. (I even asked a few KDs before i did it, and they said it was okay, but they all stayed silent when **** hit the fan and i didnt feel the need to involve them as i was clearly led behind and butt****ed, for something that was done to me last time i played in the top few kds..).

    Enough rambling, just try be more supportive and allow for KDs to make their own mistakes if you want more up there, you can give advice but you cant force people to follow it.
    I've given my share of advice and/or answered questions whenever people asked. I have nothing against other kingdoms growing big and getting to be better at being big and possible at some point be as good as the rest up there. It does need someones motivation though. Without that, it wont work out anyway. Gotta be realistic in that as well

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetley View Post
    Land dropping is lame fo real
    I'm here nor there on it. I've been in kingdoms that LD but I've never opted for it myself. I've never had a problem warring a LD kingdom.

    I think you play in a more serious kingdom, tetley.

    The good casual kingdoms that get too big are the ones I've recommended to LD. In particular when I was with Plaidovia, the kingdom was unaware of top play and navigation. Don't get me wrong; they have some very sound players(better than me), but they are a casual kingdom. They don't follow the forum or pay attention to charts. You can trust that anything they do resembling navigation is coincidental. They might not war a-holes: if any of you were wondering why they refused to war you. We warred bigger, better and more organized kingdoms...but they weren't a-holes.

    Personally I love playing for acres. Whenever my kingdom of the month talks about my province taking a LD I refuse. It's a fact that I'll end up in a war with 3-5 enemy provinces my size or more. This usually keeps me from breaking away and building a cow in war ;-)
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  4. #49
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    I didn't read all of the thread, so maybe this is covered or whatever, but I would strongly suggest that warring KDs ignore the request to whore.

    For anyone not aware, ED has disbanded after whoring this age, it almost happened at the start of the age due to leadership RL/not having fun anymore but we tried to play with what we had till Dubai quit and Parth didn't want to lead solo so everyone stopped logging in and we got farmed by The U. I'm pretty convinced that besides leadership leaving the boredom faced with whoring helped seal the deal for a lot of core players.

    Any war KD who tries to grow has the joys of being looked at as free land, exploited with garbage CFs which are not advantagous and going from the freedom to finding wars at your own pace to spending downtime pumping cows (if you go that route) and waiting for CFs to drop knowing you're either going to farm someone or be farmed.

    Why would people who enjoy waring on their skill level really want to take the step up and risk their KD falling apart while having no chance of getting any crown, it's a totally different game play style and frankly if you're just a core player it's pretty god awful.

    My personal opinion.

  5. #50
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    Playing around land is fun because it adds stakes to everything and makes wars/hostiles much more organic. Not to mention having time to plan makes the actual hostile/war way more strategically rich and adds loads of depth to the game. The issue is that the harder you try the more annoying it is to lose and the more personal people take losing. Diplo is also just such a massive time sink, but brings too many benifits to really ignore. Nearly everyone would probably be fine agreeing to a broad set of predetermined responses to different situations and then if people just followed that it would expedite the inter-kd relations. If you do want to try growing next age and have questions feel free to pm me here on IRC. 99% of the problems war kd's have their first few times whoring are super easy to avoid.

    edit: posted this at same time as silverfox. It seems to me that the issue with ED wasn't so much that whoring was boring as losing to people that you view as bad was bad for morale. If you try to powerplay people and end up in bad situations then you just need to take that into account in future ages. I'm not really sure what happened with ED as far as their culture/relationships with leaders throughout the game, since last time i played my friends in the game were all either friends with people in ED or were in ED itself, but it seems like they developed a lot of bad feelings throughout the game since then.
    Last edited by topsy's revenge; 09-11-2015 at 23:40.

  6. #51
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    Glad ED is gone and yeah whoring is boring. lol

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by topsy's revenge View Post
    edit: posted this at same time as silverfox. It seems to me that the issue with ED wasn't so much that whoring was boring as losing to people that you view as bad was bad for morale. If you try to powerplay people and end up in bad situations then you just need to take that into account in future ages. I'm not really sure what happened with ED as far as their culture/relationships with leaders throughout the game, since last time i played my friends in the game were all either friends with people in ED or were in ED itself, but it seems like they developed a lot of bad feelings throughout the game since then.
    You're not really sure what happened, but you think losing to people was bad for moral.

    It's not really hard; ED crowned and people quit/left to play other places so we had 14 provs and Dubai/Parth leading, Dubai didn't want to play and Parth wouldn't lead alone with no-one else wanting to. Dubai decided to play, ED was setup more for any alliance war rather than to whore, then mid age Dubai got a new job so quit. Parth didn't want to play solo so we had basically no leadership in wars we lost and a lot of our provs were needing to be constantly sat due to people not wanting to play coming back for a few weeks then leaving again. Parth said he was going to quit, provs defected/deleted who aren't staying, people might play again if the game isn't so trash/they've had some time off.

    I don't think ED has ever taken crap from people, you can go back to UT reports and find ED being deleted for going mass vacation, you can go find the ED thread in here which is years old and IIRC the 2nd longest thread on these forums which dates back to ED reforming & contains all the *****ing, so I'm not sure what you mean by culture or leadership as it's always been policy to get revenge. Unless you're refering to BB/Pyro/FT and the double hostile on ED last age, which would also go a long way towards covering why people should avoid whoring so they don't have to deal with asshats who run top KDs.

    As for your earlier point, I'd rather have to outplay a KD who wants to war us where both are assumed to be in a good condition than pretend that trying to predict the future when negotiating CFs is an indepth strategy. There's not much depth in being noticed by a KD who's far more pumped than you because you didn't predict what every other KD around you would do correctly.

  8. #53
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    My personal experience is that more predetermined the course of the game is, less fun it brings. And in utopia it doesnt get more predetermined than whoring.
    Having the freedom to pump freely (we all love those tight looking provs) and be a top dog and not target for someone to botomfeed on is nice and dandy, but not good enough tradeoff to go down that road imo.
    Most fun I had in this game was creating my own KD from scratch and building it up to a good war KD, just go from wave to wave till you get a war and train noobs along the way. If if I had the time to actually lead a KD I'd start new KD every 3-4 ages just for the pleasure of it.

    Also while many will not agree diplo is absolute black hole of this game. The fact many top leaders will twist the spirit of their own words and turn into total and utter douchebags just to earn minor advantage in meaningless online game never seizes to baffle me. Why would normal, well adjusted person with personal integrity strive to associate with such company ?
    No thanks, I'll pass on whoring tyvm.

    @silverfox
    sorry to hear you guys disbanded, while we were on bad terms and mostly looking to screw eachother over its sad to see one of the few established kd's disband, its a loss for uto comunity, dwindling as it is.

  9. #54
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    The most fun I have is when I change my science to extreme and proceed to log once a day
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by DM_Benjamin View Post
    The most fun I have is when I change my science to extreme and proceed to log once a day
    Agreed.
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by citadela01 View Post
    My personal experience is that more predetermined the course of the game is, less fun it brings. And in utopia it doesnt get more predetermined than whoring.
    Having the freedom to pump freely (we all love those tight looking provs) and be a top dog and not target for someone to botomfeed on is nice and dandy, but not good enough tradeoff to go down that road imo.
    Most fun I had in this game was creating my own KD from scratch and building it up to a good war KD, just go from wave to wave till you get a war and train noobs along the way. If if I had the time to actually lead a KD I'd start new KD every 3-4 ages just for the pleasure of it.

    Also while many will not agree diplo is absolute black hole of this game. The fact many top leaders will twist the spirit of their own words and turn into total and utter douchebags just to earn minor advantage in meaningless online game never seizes to baffle me. Why would normal, well adjusted person with personal integrity strive to associate with such company ?
    No thanks, I'll pass on whoring tyvm.

    @silverfox
    sorry to hear you guys disbanded, while we were on bad terms and mostly looking to screw eachother over its sad to see one of the few established kd's disband, its a loss for uto comunity, dwindling as it is.
    I hope you keep building kingdoms up and I'm glad you enjoy it, I agree that is one of the pleasures of the game and I actually think much of the top would agree with you on that. They might also agree that diplo can be annoying at time but it IS part of the game and if we are being honest has ALWAYS been part of the game. I agree, sometimes the words / terms get twisted against their spirit and that annoys me as well, but that is NOT a top problem that is just a problem with the ENTIRE game. The games played to attempt to get wars, either through shady diplo or baiting are just as disgusting as some of the crappy diplo and shady play in the top. It's all the same thing. Fortunately, if you are in the top it is actually EASIER to avoid some of that crap if you are just clear / respectful in your diplo and for the most part the other top kingdoms will respect that.

    If any of the higher caliber "warring kingdoms" (hate to use that term -- I feel we are JUST as much a warring kingdom as anyone in the so-called "warring" tier) are hesitant to try growing (and really you can war just as much in the top AND it is far easier to actually get wars, they will just be tougher) because of the diplo aspect I encourage them to give it a try. Just ask around and I think you will be pleasantly surprised on the diplo front. I'm not saying you will get whatever you want but it's generally fair and not that bad to deal with.

  12. #57
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    I think you are wrong in your last statement. Coming from warring tier I can assure you that we couldn't pull of a war win against the top of the top KDs that sit in science pump mode for months if we tried. It would be a plain and simple farm war, nothing else. We enjoy wars that are even 20-80 but 0-100 is just boring and dumb. It's much easier to give them some land and war someone your own size and who had the same preparation opportunity. With all the CFs in place the whoring KDs make sure to get a unsurmountable preparation advantage over any warring KD. It's the way it works atm, if there were no CFs there would probably be no whoring KDs either. It would all be one big warring tier and only then could you expect a warring KD rising to the top of the land charts by simply warring other KDs.

    Note: when I refer to top KDs I only refer to CR, Emeriti and BB in this post, not the various whoring attempts, those are not top KDs, those are just KDs whoring.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija View Post
    I think you are wrong in your last statement. Coming from warring tier I can assure you that we couldn't pull of a war win against the top of the top KDs that sit in science pump mode for months if we tried. It would be a plain and simple farm war, nothing else. We enjoy wars that are even 20-80 but 0-100 is just boring and dumb. It's much easier to give them some land and war someone your own size and who had the same preparation opportunity. With all the CFs in place the whoring KDs make sure to get a unsurmountable preparation advantage over any warring KD. It's the way it works atm, if there were no CFs there would probably be no whoring KDs either. It would all be one big warring tier and only then could you expect a warring KD rising to the top of the land charts by simply warring other KDs.

    Note: when I refer to top KDs I only refer to CR, Emeriti and BB in this post, not the various whoring attempts, those are not top KDs, those are just KDs whoring.
    Not sure why that would mean you shouldn't try growing? Of course if you aren't pumped you can't realistically fight a super pumped opponent -- that's why CR has already won this age (another topic -- but I think the devs should make some changes to tone down the power of pumping, tough balance though since if they go to far it really hurts the planning aspect of the game which is important).

    But we all start the age at 400 acres and the same sci. We've had 5 wars age and will likely end with 6 or 7. We might not be quite as good as CR / Eme / BB but that's fine. Why not give it a shot? Worst case you drop back down and maybe learn some new strategies. Really don't have to do much more than take the land bonus with your first war win.

  14. #59
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    I was under the impression some people were suggesting to take land bonuses and try to "whore" after starting the age by just trying to war other KDs and not actually get some cows going and deploy an econ strat. I don't have anything against it if a KD feels they should try whoring next age and be a part of it all but trying to challenge a top KD just because you won too many wars instead of LDing is silly, you will not learn anything new from a farm war. Every KD is free to do as they please but I'm telling you right now most respectable KDs are wise enough to realize what's good for them after they grow from winning wars, going for more land will rarely be one of those things.
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverfox View Post
    Any war KD who tries to grow has the joys of being looked at as free land, exploited with garbage CFs which are not advantagous and going from the freedom to finding wars at your own pace to spending downtime pumping cows (if you go that route) and waiting for CFs to drop knowing you're either going to farm someone or be farmed.
    I can't talk for others but we've been giving pretty fair CFs to new KDs to whoring like Shinra or Pyro. I know a bunch of others have been on their turn as well, so what you're saying isn't entirely true.
    The main thing the "new" kingdoms lack, is experience.

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