Respect

[Nightmare_]

Korp there should never be a war with that kind of nw difference. I would not call that dodging.

LoRD_SaMPuaN some of your players do think they are God's gift to Utopia. Grace is something that escapes them. I am not sure what StratOcastle is referring to, but I do know what happened between your kingdom and ours. You hit us first. To claim that we just decided to wave you as Loiso or whatever his/her name did is false. Your guys/gals can't call someone that won't war you a dodger and then complain if someone does war you.

Loiso is the founder of FS. He pasted an in-game mail. Why don't you address it?

Also, you're taking separate people's opinions and putting them altogether, hence the apparent contradictions. IDK where dodge was called: where is this post? All in all people talk too much and should just settle it in the ring.

TBH addressing this entire thread is a fool's errand. When the issue is perceived bullying and oppression from a player on the outside-looking-in who thinks himself to be a champion of the marginalized, there is no convincing. Why bother? Whole lot of bluster in the guise of 'respect.' From what I saw it was Ruthless's choice to continue hostile after the initial waves. Takes two to tango. If the issue is diction, then sure, 'running' or 'dodging' was the wrong word choice.

[Loiso]

Just a little comment, StratO

IMHO, forum is the place where posters express their *personal* opinion first of all. Unless stated otherwise. No need to pick up words of one player and look on it in context of whole KD. More to say, maybe instead of making judgment about Kd basing on forum posts its worth to base it on how things look "in action"? Could u name me a Kd we bullied? Or maybe acted unfair to? If you want we can go step by step through conflict with ruthless (or actually any other in this age), check what was said and what was done...

With all respect~

P.S. I think it was shown already from where those 94% come from. Why u keep repeating it?

[Loiso]

You hit us first. To claim that we just decided to wave you as Loiso or whatever his/her name did is false. Your guys/gals can't call someone that won't war you a dodger and then complain if someone does war you.

Excuse me? Could you please quote me where i said that you *just decided* to wave us out of the blue? It started from simple random. We hit, you retaled. However it quickly turned in your KD outhitting us by large margin. More to say it wasnt just a single wave you kept hitting for a while. You was even kind enough to send amusing messages to me.

[duckels]

Here is a timeline for all.

FS waved Ruthless giving hostile going for max honor
Ruthless retaled
Strato accused FS of being a bully along with Ruthless tagging FS as Bully.
FS had much QQ over the accusation, although bully by definition 'a person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker'
Ruthless decided not to bend over and eat a wave or two retal free and said they would retal 1 for 1.
Fun was had by all.
Meter capped and ruthless was near dropping fort.
Diplomacy was had with the notion that if no agreement was meant Ruthless would get to have a fun time utilizing Amnesia and other fun ops with all of our super pumped WPA now.
It was assumed FS agreed because the minimal honor gains would not be worth the amount of sciences lost and other due ops to the NW advantage of Ruthless TM vs FS TM.
CF Signed with meter at 150/143.

Obviously it would of been in Ruthless best interest to cave in to FS and grovel for a CF from the start, but you know what happens when you always let dicks get away with everything? You get screwed, over and over again hence Ruthless went for a nutshot instead of stroking the ego.

Any other questions?

Source; peon in ruthless and read transcripts of the PM's.

[Nightmare_]

Here is a timeline for all.

FS waved Ruthless giving hostile going for max honor
Ruthless retaled
Strato accused FS of being a bully along with Ruthless tagging FS as Bully.
FS had much QQ over the accusation, although bully by definition 'a person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker'
Ruthless decided not to bend over and eat a wave or two retal free and said they would retal 1 for 1.
Fun was had by all.
Meter capped and ruthless was near dropping fort.
Diplomacy was had with the notion that if no agreement was meant Ruthless would get to have a fun time utilizing Amnesia and other fun ops with all of our super pumped WPA now.
It was assumed FS agreed because the minimal honor gains would not be worth the amount of sciences lost and other due ops to the NW advantage of Ruthless TM vs FS TM.
CF Signed with meter at 150/143.

Obviously it would of been in Ruthless best interest to cave in to FS and grovel for a CF from the start, but you know what happens when you always let dicks get away with everything? You get screwed, over and over again hence Ruthless went for a nutshot instead of stroking the ego.

Any other questions?

Source; peon in ruthless and read transcripts of the PM's.

Gosh. Waving = being a dick? You don't need to grovel. Just diplo.

[LoRD_SaMPuaN]

Here is a timeline for all.

FS waved Ruthless giving hostile going for max honor
Ruthless retaled
Strato accused FS of being a bully along with Ruthless tagging FS as Bully.
FS had much QQ over the accusation, although bully by definition 'a person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker'
Ruthless decided not to bend over and eat a wave or two retal free and said they would retal 1 for 1.
Fun was had by all.
Meter capped and ruthless was near dropping fort.
Diplomacy was had with the notion that if no agreement was meant Ruthless would get to have a fun time utilizing Amnesia and other fun ops with all of our super pumped WPA now.
It was assumed FS agreed because the minimal honor gains would not be worth the amount of sciences lost and other due ops to the NW advantage of Ruthless TM vs FS TM.
CF Signed with meter at 150/143.

Obviously it would of been in Ruthless best interest to cave in to FS and grovel for a CF from the start, but you know what happens when you always let dicks get away with everything? You get screwed, over and over again hence Ruthless went for a nutshot instead of stroking the ego.

Any other questions?

Source; peon in ruthless and read transcripts of the PM's.

yeah we definitely didnt want to farm +10k more honor, because of some amnesia from 2 provs :)

what i learn from that reply - do not show any kindness or decency on other kds, especially when they call themselves ruthless..

[StratOcastle]

jmiedema

There is a risk/reward of being a small kingdom all age and storing up large amounts of honour by warring and beating ghetto's. You get a larger amount of easier wars compared to honour kingdoms that also grow to be top 15 in size. Just because your kingdom has chosen a safer sized environment to do your warring in doesn't mean you are just given an easy road to be high or top of the honour charts, and it should be expected that you will be randomed into by larger kingdoms who are going for honour charts.

^ the safer size environment?

You assume they chose to stay small. You don't know the inner workings of the kingdom in question. The go-to commentary is always that these kingdoms stay small to dodge you.

It hasn't occurred to you that the diplo environment can only be secured by as many farms the tops require to compete. Yes, the tops need acres. Without that threat you can pump. Many of these kingdoms have to forge their wars without diplomatic shielding.

Like I said, and apparently you don't want to listen, I think FS has many nice players. You should then respect that I hold you in regard.

My issue is with the rhetoric that these kingdoms lack the character to compete at the highest levels. I'm sure they'd like to but I didn't see a full roster. Ruthless has been recruiting and the player base simply can't support every kind of hard worker. Additionally, some may not want to play the diplo card and they are small because of that as well. you can't argue with opponent size 103% though.

I'm not here to change minds just rhetoric.

[Loiso]

Here is a timeline for all.

FS waved Ruthless giving hostile going for max honor
Ruthless retaled
Strato accused FS of being a bully along with Ruthless tagging FS as Bully.
FS had much QQ over the accusation, although bully by definition 'a person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker'
Ruthless decided not to bend over and eat a wave or two retal free and said they would retal 1 for 1.
Fun was had by all.
Meter capped and ruthless was near dropping fort.
Diplomacy was had with the notion that if no agreement was meant Ruthless would get to have a fun time utilizing Amnesia and other fun ops with all of our super pumped WPA now.
It was assumed FS agreed because the minimal honor gains would not be worth the amount of sciences lost and other due ops to the NW advantage of Ruthless TM vs FS TM.
CF Signed with meter at 150/143.

Obviously it would of been in Ruthless best interest to cave in to FS and grovel for a CF from the start, but you know what happens when you always let dicks get away with everything? You get screwed, over and over again hence Ruthless went for a nutshot instead of stroking the ego.

Any other questions?

Source; peon in ruthless and read transcripts of the PM's.

Heh... more like:

1. FS waves.
2. Ruthless tags and retals close to 1-for-1
3. Ruthless send CF offer and threatens to withdraw it and keep retalling 1-for-1 if we keep hitting
4. FS waves again. After this it was stated that CF deal is always on table when Ruthless will be ready for it
5. We hit each other for a while.
6. Without any words Ruthless sends CF offer again. Hostile meter is 150-147.
7. After confirming terms we sign CF deal.

Thats the timeline (skipping all the craptalks). We gained like 5k honor on this orso... could gain more as after maxing hostile meter we basically had free wave. Whole this conflict could just have stage 1, 6 and 7.

[StratOcastle]

You're defending your actions. I'm not questioning your in game actions.

I'm simply not going to allow you to state a kingdom is dodging without rebuttal.

[Loiso]

You don't know the inner workings of the kingdom in question. The go-to commentary is...

Aren't you doing same thing? And should we also assume that this is how you represent the KD you are in?

[Goodwitch]

Just FYI this relative size comes from one silly war when some KD decided that it will pay out to wave us hiding behind 50% declaration limit. They were wrong. Other then that... maybe you need to check with KD we warred how we bullied them? Factually, you should get some facts before making claims. :P

EDIT: and as it was said before CF deal was always on the table. I made sure that Ruthless monarch is aware of this. They decision was to retal hits "1 for 1"... thats up to them we can respect this decision to fight back. But then... why complain on consequences of your own actions? Ineed the mirror could help alot :P

you said we tried to wave you hiding 50% declare limit. You were the ones that hit us while above declare limit. This is also not the first time members of FS have brought this up.

Game Date February 22 of YR8
Real Date Sat, 31 Oct at 14:21 GMT+00:00
Sender ************************
Recipient ************************
Subject hey
I was gone for a day but I am back now. We shall continue with learns and massacres on you until now you offer CF ;) remember since you are bigger you will lose far more than we will. Have a most fabulous day

mirana

this message was written after I sent CF and you kept hitting instead of accepting it hence the wording "until now you offer" instead of just "until you offer". I did not reply to it in the other thread because of respect. And I am not sure you even deserved an answer because clearly you are one of FS's problems, founder or not. We have always had good relations with FS but if this is the direction y'all wanna go then so be it.

[LoRD_SaMPuaN]

jmiedema

There is a risk/reward of being a small kingdom all age and storing up large amounts of honour by warring and beating ghetto's. You get a larger amount of easier wars compared to honour kingdoms that also grow to be top 15 in size. Just because your kingdom has chosen a safer sized environment to do your warring in doesn't mean you are just given an easy road to be high or top of the honour charts, and it should be expected that you will be randomed into by larger kingdoms who are going for honour charts.

^ the safer size environment?

You assume they chose to stay small. You don't know the inner workings of the kingdom in question. The go-to commentary is always that these kingdoms stay small to dodge you.

It hasn't occurred to you that the diplo environment can only be secured by as many farms the tops require to compete. Yes, the tops need acres. Without that threat you can pump. Many of these kingdoms have to forge their wars without diplomatic shielding.

Like I said, and apparently you don't want to listen, I think FS has many nice players. You should then respect that I hold you in regard.

My issue is with the rhetoric that these kingdoms lack the character to compete at the highest levels. I'm sure they'd like to but I didn't see a full roster. Ruthless has been recruiting and the player base simply can't support every kind of hard worker. Additionally, some may not want to play the diplo card and they are small because of that as well. you can't argue with opponent size 103% though.

I'm not here to change minds just rhetoric.

feel free to discuss this with jmiedema over pms or whatever you prefer - make sure to keep fs name out of it though.. i still fail to see the disrespect part though, but i dont see a point in arguing this - every kingdom has all rights to navigate through charts as they like, intentionally or not.. it feels like you are digging too deep to find something, but perhaps its just me.. simply look at our actions towards other kds, instead of searching clues in between lines..

[Loiso]

this message was written after I sent CF and you kept hitting instead of accepting it hence the wording "until now you offer" instead of just "until you offer". I did not reply to it in the other thread because of respect. And I am not sure you even deserved an answer because clearly you are one of FS's problems, founder or not. We have always had good relations with FS but if this is the direction y'all wanna go then so be it.

strange thing though... you sent us CF and we kept hitting you... yet it was we who had button (and u have more hp by quite large margin). You really think this is the way how you get CFs? Good logic. But well it was clear already when you started to call us "cheaters" after we declared. Yep. We cheated.

[LoRD_SaMPuaN]

you said we tried to wave you hiding 50% declare limit. You were the ones that hit us while above declare limit. This is also not the first time members of FS have brought this up.



this message was written after I sent CF and you kept hitting instead of accepting it hence the wording "until now you offer" instead of just "until you offer". I did not reply to it in the other thread because of respect. And I am not sure you even deserved an answer because clearly you are one of FS's problems, founder or not. We have always had good relations with FS but if this is the direction y'all wanna go then so be it.

mirana, im pretty sure we both wouldve behaved differently if we knew who each other was, and as for loiso, he is a russian mob after all :/ many ppl were angry because you went overboard with retals hiding behind declaration range, and theres been unpleasant war forum experience for both sides because of the leading events into war.. think we should move on admitting we both couldve done better things..

[Goodwitch]

I apologize StratOcastle , I wish they wouldn't put me in a situation where I have to disrupt your discussion about your problem. i will try to keep it to a minimum I promise.