Respect

[StratOcastle]

Confusion.

So you don't believe me when I tell you there are a lot of nice people in FS? There are.

Do you bottom feed? Yes, and that's part of the game. Lots of kingdoms bottom feed. Most try to establish an advantage.

Do I have a problem with that? None what so ever.

So what's the problem? When a kingdom that's full of nice people or not establishes a clear mechanical advantage over their opponents then suggests those opponents are somehow lacking competitive character, I take issue.

You have every advantage. You have a roster rich with talent and eager players. Your team has deep experience and years of collective understanding in diplomacy and mechanical knowledge.

You can hash around what was meant, and I truly believe the comment was said without meaning harm.

Does that mean we let it go? No. The reason the post was started was to respect Wsk and SS, because that's where the discussion started.

You don't like it? Neither do I. Even as good people we make mistakes. My motive was to shed light on a bad direction.

Look around. You have friends all around. You have recruits with proven track records. Your diplomacy situation has you tightly set in a powerful position for a war kingdom; with allies and a network of land kingdoms that will strike any competitor of measurable worth. Sure they can CF, but they have to run the gauntlet against everyone around you.

You mentioned you knew how big you wanted to be this age and did all the diplo necessary to achieve that. The kingdoms you're facing now didn't have this luxury. They didn't have previous experiences with the kingdoms that occupy the top. Some were still getting their legs mid-age. They certainly don't have your roster, your diplomatically enhanced pump at the acreage level you've established.

Respect that battle. When you do war diplomacy with regard for yourself just remember the guys that fought their way up struggled a long time to get here. When you engage a kingdom that has an undefeated war record against challenges larger than themselves, please be respectful.
Maybe I have the wherewithal to deal with all the criticism, but not everyone is built so. If your target reacts in anger, as good people we should be above it.

- My previous post was to meet citadela01 at the same level of respect that was offered to me. -

Thank you.

[Nightmare_]

So you edited your post. Let me start there. First thank you for finally reading the whole thread before discounting me completely. I was not baited. My kingdom was insulted by one of your mates and this was not the first time this has happened this age. Just because your kingdom gets called out, does not make it okay to talk badly about other kingdoms or other people that never said anything bad about you.



this clearly makes it sound like your way of doing things is better/more admirable, like your war wins and honor points count more than theirs. Because they chose "a safer environment" in other words a less challenging one. And though at the end he gives several valid reasons for not growing he leads off by saying that if they had wanted to they could have easily grown to your size also, implying that the reason Ruthless is the size they are is because they made the choice not to face the same challenges and hardships your kingdom had to endure in order to achieve their stats.

Neither StratOcastle nor me are complaining about your actions in the game. It's your(generalization, it's not all of you) behavior in the forums that is condescending and at times even spiteful. (I hope I didn't misinterpret you StratOcastle, if I did I apologize).

Perhaps 'goaded' is a better word. Or 'elicited.' It's never acceptable, but I think it's important to view the events in their full context before casting judgment.

This is what I mean by miscommunication -- his tone wasn't conveyed in a manner conducive to understanding. It is as I stated earlier: everyone chooses a tier in which they feel they can compete for logistic, skill-based, or leadership reasons. Perhaps the word 'choose' implies too purposeful a decision, and we would be better saying something different. A question that could be posed to you is, if they did not choose the size they currently are, why are they there, instead of at 90k acres? An honest question: could be cause they lost at some point. Could be extended pump, or falling behind while looking for war. I don't have a prov currently so I can only assume they hover in the 60k acre range. I also have no idea what their war record is.

As far as whether it's 'better,' it depends on the metrics used. In terms of competitiveness, it's well-known that the higher up you go, the more challenging it is. It is true that sense of "better." You'll have a lot of people around here call out so-called ghetto bashers for that reason. Now, whether it says anything about comparative KD culture, fun, praiseworthiness, and subjective 'hardship' is a different story altogether. I don't think he would say our hardships are more relevant or meritorious than yours or theirs.

Honestly, life is way better in the middle/lower tiers. No one would ever wake me up to make a hit. Or make me stressed out because I didn't follow the build.

[Nightmare_]

Confusion.

So you don't believe me when I tell you there are a lot of nice people in FS? There are.

Do you bottom feed? Yes, and that's part of the game. Lots of kingdoms bottom feed. Most try to establish an advantage.

Do I have a problem with that? None what so ever.

So what's the problem? When a kingdom that's full of nice people or not establishes a clear mechanical advantage over their opponents then suggests those opponents are somehow lacking competitive character, I take issue.

You have every advantage. You have a roster rich with talent and eager players. Your team has deep experience and years of collective understanding in diplomacy and mechanical knowledge.

You can hash around what was meant, and I truly believe the comment was said without meaning harm.

Does that mean we let it go? No. The reason the post was started was to respect Wsk and SS, because that's where the discussion started.

You don't like it? Neither do I. Even as good people we make mistakes. My motive was to shed light on a bad direction.

Look around. You have friends all around. You have recruits with proven track records. Your diplomacy situation has you tightly set in a powerful position for a war kingdom; with allies and a network of land kingdoms that will strike any competitor of measurable worth. Sure they can CF, but they have to run the gauntlet against everyone around you.

You mentioned you knew how big you wanted to be this age and did all the diplo necessary to achieve that. The kingdoms you're facing now didn't have this luxury. They didn't have previous experiences with the kingdoms that occupy the top. Some were still getting their legs mid-age. They certainly don't have your roster, your diplomatically enhanced pump at the acreage level you've established.

Respect that battle. When you do war diplomacy with regard for yourself just remember the guys that fought their way up struggled a long time to get here. When you engage a kingdom that has an undefeated war record against challenges larger than themselves, please be respectful.
Maybe I have the wherewithal to deal with all the criticism, but not everyone is built so. If your target reacts in anger, as good people we should be above it.

- My previous post was to meet citadela01 at the same level of respect that was offered to me. -

Thank you.

The thing is, war diplomacy isn't difficult. All it comes down to is realizing where the leverage lies. If a KD comes bearing down on you in a superior position, you certainly shouldn't try to meet them tit-for-tat or regard them with aggression in correspondence unless you have a trump card. FS abides by this principle in the same way. If I were to lead a KD and a KD much bigger than me started hitting me, my immediate reaction wouldn't be to hit them. Or demand they CF. I would actively discourage any of my players from making the mistake of engaging. Almost everyone is reasonable if given ample concessions, such as free wave. One of the biggest shifts in warring culture today is that free waves for CF are not the automatic response. People will fort up, demand CF or else, hit one for one, or whatever else, all the while disparaging the aggressor.

As far as competitive character... I've been in those KDs. I played in those KDs for many ages, and I can safely say that our leadership would always elect to stay in tiers where we knew we had a reasonable shot at winning. Whether this says anything about my previous KD's 'competitive character' is something you can judge for yourself. The spirit and will to compete were certainly there - not the talent, know-how, or the time. Competitive character, maybe. Competitiveness, maybe not.

[Goodwitch]

I am glad you pointed out that you don't have a province atm. It would sure be a shame if someone woke you up in the middle of the night cause that only happens when you are really big. Those low life smaller kingdoms in the 60k acre range don't ever have to deal with stuff like that cause heck all their wars are just easy peasy...do you see how that sounds? Oh I wonder if BB , CR, and others read this, pretty sure they will be happy to oblige you when you ask for the next cf since apparently you think it's totally okay to demand a free wave for a cf as long as you are bigger in size. That's how your theory works right?

btw their war record is 4/4

[Nightmare_]

I am glad you pointed out that you don't have a province atm. It would sure be a shame if someone woke you up in the middle of the night cause that only happens when you are really big. Those low life smaller kingdoms in the 60k acre range don't ever have to deal with stuff like that cause heck all their wars are just easy peasy...do you see how that sounds? Oh I wonder if BB , CR, and others read this, pretty sure they will be happy to oblige you when you ask for the next cf since apparently you think it's totally okay to demand a free wave for a cf as long as you are bigger in size. That's how your theory works right?

btw their war record is 4/4

These are all general trends. You're taking the point and drawing grossly exaggerated inferences. In the middle tiers, it's not required. You can see this from the recruitment threads. I've played in multiple 'tiers' of the game. I think I'm qualified to say that 50k land KDs are not going to be as competitive as 100k land KDs, that they don't demand as much time and effort. If you disagree, then all I will say is - grow next age and see where the cards fall. Now, for leadership, this is different. Building up the caliber of a fledging upstart is extremely difficult and stressful in its own right. I don't envy people who want to build a KD from the ground-up. THAT is admirable, especially with player turnover now.

And yes - This is EXACTLY how the land KDs operate. Give free wave for CF until yr 5. Or EoA. If they like you enough or regard you as a potential threat, for free. They have no qualms about engaging with superior position. Some will REFUSE CF until they're satisfied, or if they don't deem it necessary or beneficial. FS is currently in a precarious situation like that. Do we complain? No.

[starz]

what did i miss? so FS is the villain now?? :D

[Goodwitch]

Nightmare I will take a hardline straight talking but respectful leader over a condescending pompous one any day. Since nothing your team members say is ever meant in any way there is also no need to even read what any of you write. I have seen you regurgitate the same statements formulated in a different way over several posts, using different words does not change what they mean. When you say"It's never acceptable" it almost makes it sound like you acknowledge there was a problem, but then you couldn't help it and just had to add", but I think it's important to view the events in their full context before casting judgment. ". So it's normally unacceptable BUT in this case, after studying all the facts it's really not a problem...because?...oh because it was a member of FS they can't be held accountable? I have spent too much time on this already, there are more pleasant things I can do than talking to a brick wall.

[Nightmare_]

Shrug. Do what you like. No point to discuss with people who dispense judgment dichotomously. I still don't get how you draw those conclusions, but ok.

And now we've reached the end of this fruitless discussion :) Isn't it great

[LoRD_SaMPuaN]

Nightmare I will take a hardline straight talking but respectful leader over a condescending pompous one any day. Since nothing your team members say is ever meant in any way there is also no need to even read what any of you write. I have seen you regurgitate the same statements formulated in a different way over several posts, using different words does not change what they mean. When you say"It's never acceptable" it almost makes it sound like you acknowledge there was a problem, but then you couldn't help it and just had to add", but I think it's important to view the events in their full context before casting judgment. ". So it's normally unacceptable BUT in this case, after studying all the facts it's really not a problem...because?...oh because it was a member of FS they can't be held accountable? I have spent too much time on this already, there are more pleasant things I can do than talking to a brick wall.

mirana, i only stop talking about this war because you asked for it, not because it is wrong.. the topic isnt even about you, and your kd name wasnt even mentioned at all - just a smaller kd we warred & whether we bullied them into war OR not.. it will be brought up whenever ppl claim us bullying smaller kds to war, because this is a lie and our only such war has quite some facts to prove that.. its time you should take a step back, and understand this has nothing to do about you..

[LoRD_SaMPuaN]

Shrug. Do what you like. No point to discuss with people who dispense judgment dichotomously. I still don't get how you draw those conclusions, but ok.

And now we've reached the end of this fruitless discussion :) Isn't it great

instead of making this post, you could let her have the last word so it doesnt keep going.. i see where you are coming from, but theres been enough posts to show whats happening to ppl who read about it..

[Nightmare_]

instead of making this post, you could let her have the last word so it doesnt keep going.. i see where you are coming from, but theres been enough posts to show whats happening to ppl who read about it..

Yeah, fair.

[nickey]

FS can always ask pyro to come help and clear their name ;)

[DM_Benjamin]

FS can always ask pyro to come help and clear their name ;)

I respected you more when I thought you and Dowla were Siberians.....that flame of anticipation has long died out in disappointment

[pyre]

Haha, this game really never does change.

[Milkman]

what did i miss? so FS is the villain now?? :D

Depends on if you find honor farming kingdoms half your size is cool.