Suicide Squad VS FReakstyle

[lampost]

I missed that whole situation. How were the called punished then?

'Punished?'

Excuse me, I must have missed something. Why should their fairplay friends punish them?

[Anri]

Punishment needs to fit the crime, overkill is only a cure for boredom.

[lampost]

Punishment needs to fit the crime, overkill is only a cure for boredom.

Yeah tell me about it, dont remember it ever going to year 17.

[Gorash]

Think of it. Utopia would be boring without us Freeaks.. . Happy NY folks, we Freeaks love you all, and we are not sorry coz Freaks is who we are.

PS bring back the Dark Elbes, texn drives me insane...

[Pale]

Members of BB helped organize the action. They took responsibility for it by giving acres/honour/resources to ED as payment/punishment for the crimes. ED said they were ok with that and case was closed.

[TheOne]

How's Donald Trump doing?

[Band of Horses]

How's Donald Trump doing?

Really rich, just trust him.

[StratOcastle]

I left because I was no longer having fun. I would never actively turn people away from the game, but if you aren't getting any joy from playing a game, you shouldn't play it. Simple as that. As I explained in the thread, there wasn't anything that "happened" and I absolutely considered POINT jumping into VM as a victory. We beat him, so he had to hide.


Pyro and the U wanted to try their hand at whoring. If FS wants to be the biggest, baddest, warringest kingdom the game's ever seen, that's their choice. You don't get to dictate the goals of other kingdoms.


That's part of the game though, building your kingdom up. It's not just roster management. It's making friends and enemies. It's making it known what you will and won't stand for and then (hopefully) sticking by that. It's getting better at diplo and making connections with other kingdoms.



I agree. Game needs players and we especially need to retain the players we already have. What I don't agree with is that Goodwitch and her task force will cause less people to quit than the way it kingdoms are already actioned. How is Goodwitch razing people somehow better for the playerbase than Zauper razing people?

1. Come back. Be miserable. It's better for the game.

2. How's that? But seriously because it's bad for the game. You're going to make me build an anti-diplo alliance. Word gets around someone wants a deal they get GB.

3. I think it's important for the community at large(the forum rife with top presence)to recognize that most of the server doesn't want to play walkie-talkie. The ones that then rise to the ranks get some shlock about learning diplo and apparently the hard way. This basically puts an up and coming kingdom in the position of preemptive razing via proxy provinces planted though out the sub20. That's exactly the short answer to overcoming the diplo environment. Nobody wants to do that, so I'm suggesting we respect our tiers and put the best foot forward. Do I have to address stalling to? This system leaves the rising kingdoms little choice.

The word on the street is these kingdoms are lurking around taking easy wars, but again I point out that in SS case they already warred Ascension and in the case of Ruthless boast a 103% opponent size. From what I've seen in Jerks, the war tier is competitive and generally seek competition. Heck, War Monkeys are hitting us now and they get bad press. We might be a paper lion, but it still indicates the will to test their mettle.

So short and sweet; be a steward of the game. Get in front of it and communicate with the war tier because communication isn't the war tier way. Offer diplo advice before they ding on the radar. It's not strategy advice; they still won't know the meta. Just a friendly reminder. I know you guys can see a war kingdom so it's not an excuse that they suddenly appeared in range.

4. Goodwitch as stated before was reacting to a wrong. If that reaction wasn't there then the bullying goes on in silence. We need to let the top know that there should be restraint in how low things should go. And like I said, these things take time. I'd prefer we be constructive. I'd like to see the tops agree with that. Bad taste is bad taste.

You can give me all the middle ground arguments in some philosophical debate but I believe in good and I will work toward good solutions. Good how? Not the way you're handling things. You're indifference is disappointing but it is who you are. I'm not against you and I'm not against the tops, but I want the positions to be respected. If you won't let me suggest respect then we have to have a combative solution.

We are talking about people who should grasp the idea of nuance and savvy. I'm not underestimating the maturity of the players involved. Knowing this I expect sensible action, but all I saw was dragon breath. Let's rewind and try this minus who screwed who.

[Sheister]

4. Goodwitch as stated before was reacting to a wrong.......

No, she/he was not. Goodwitch was reacting to normal game play. ***** as he/she must, it was normal game play.

[silverfox]

The initial reaction they had to the ED situation last age was unfortunate and everyone would agree that it was not appropriate. But reparations were made to the kd wronged and in the end the kd wronged was ok with the ending. You'd only have a leg to stand on saying this kind of stuff if it had not been resolved in such a way that the kd wronged didn't get anything for it and FS was allowed to do their **** play unhindered. Obviously not the case. It was a situation where a kd wanted 3-4 waves for a cf which is well outside of the confines of normal game play. Only after learning the history between the 2 kds did the kd(s) stepping in realize they were in the wrong. Without the information it just looked bad for ED. They paid for that mistake and made reparations to ED for it. People bringing up situations where people already paid the price and resolved things diplomatically is getting pretty damn old. You have no right to complain since you were not wronged in the situation and the kd who was ended up satisfied with the resolution. It would be different if they and the kds involved on their side had gotten away with it unscathed and if the situation had not been policed.

This is a load of BS.

ED went after FS and offered them a CF, along the lines of 3 waves total, instead of accepting FS ran off and BB/Pyro/FS organised Pyro to wave ED after FS players bragged to ED it was going to happen. All parties then lied about it, until Pyros monarch sent logs to a ED player clearly showing the KDs talking about and organising the GB. Now if he'd not done that FS would have tried to lie their way out of the situation and all parties would have said "it's a coincidence". The problem comes when this age SS declare FS and people who hate FS take it upon themselves to start hitting them (I have no idea who SS are, but we razed FS), even though KDs involved have said SS didn't ask for the help "fair play" have decided that they must have.

So what we have here are a bunch of KDs willing to GB people on zero evidence, they could have went after the KDs doing the razing but didn't, the same bunch of KDs who are willing to organise GBs on other KDs if they believe they can get away with it.

As for the situation being "resolved" between ED, you have no idea what you're talking about. FS managed to escape a kicking rather than having to fight ED 1v1, Pyro got to keep all of the land they gained in their hits and BB offered to repay the honour which they didn't need and was virtually impossible to take from them, to the point I believe parth went and asked for GC off them instead as it'd have taken weeks to recover. The other option was for ED to keep getting GBed while Pyro and FS doubled them, so that's some real good "reparations" when 2 out of their 3 KDs gained and one lost nothing of worth.

If you can't see the hypocritical bull**** of a KD waving smaller KDs after running away crying when it happens to them, then I don't know what to say. There's a reason many people dislike FS, might want to look at their actions over the last +3 ages and consider why that might be.

[lampost]

Members of BB helped organize the action. They took responsibility for it by giving acres/honour/resources to ED as payment/punishment for the crimes. ED said they were ok with that and case was closed.

How were pyro and FS punished? I mean its easy for bb to give up a bit of something thats irrelevant to them. I also find it hard to believe that ED had much of a choice in the matter.

Sounds a little like a symbolic joke.

By the way, which kd are you in? CR?

[Goodwitch]

This is a load of BS.

ED went after FS and offered them a CF, along the lines of 3 waves total, instead of accepting FS ran off and BB/Pyro/FS organised Pyro to wave ED after FS players bragged to ED it was going to happen. All parties then lied about it, until Pyros monarch sent logs to a ED player clearly showing the KDs talking about and organising the GB. Now if he'd not done that FS would have tried to lie their way out of the situation and all parties would have said "it's a coincidence". The problem comes when this age SS declare FS and people who hate FS take it upon themselves to start hitting them (I have no idea who SS are, but we razed FS), even though KDs involved have said SS didn't ask for the help "fair play" have decided that they must have.

So what we have here are a bunch of KDs willing to GB people on zero evidence, they could have went after the KDs doing the razing but didn't, the same bunch of KDs who are willing to organise GBs on other KDs if they believe they can get away with it.

As for the situation being "resolved" between ED, you have no idea what you're talking about. FS managed to escape a kicking rather than having to fight ED 1v1, Pyro got to keep all of the land they gained in their hits and BB offered to repay the honour which they didn't need and was virtually impossible to take from them, to the point I believe parth went and asked for GC off them instead as it'd have taken weeks to recover. The other option was for ED to keep getting GBed while Pyro and FS doubled them, so that's some real good "reparations" when 2 out of their 3 KDs gained and one lost nothing of worth.

If you can't see the hypocritical bull**** of a KD waving smaller KDs after running away crying when it happens to them, then I don't know what to say. There's a reason many people dislike FS, might want to look at their actions over the last +3 ages and consider why that might be.

wait what? you razed and didn't get actioned? cause we sure did...

[Zauper]

How were pyro and FS punished? I mean its easy for bb to give up a bit of something thats irrelevant to them. I also find it hard to believe that ED had much of a choice in the matter.

Sounds a little like a symbolic joke.

By the way, which kd are you in? CR?

Pale is running his kd, which I think folks refer to as Crazies.

The situation was particularly awkward -- ED had offered FS an EOACF earlier that same day, which FS was declining running up to when pyro waved ED, shortly after which FS hit back some as well (as ED continued to hit FS). Obviously FS/Pyro were in the wrong.

I was asked by some folks in ED leadership to help with the situation. By the time talks concluded, as SF points out, Nesta had essentially indicated that he had been asked to wave ED by FS. At this point, it was clear that FS/Pyro were at fault. It came out that FS/Pyro had spoken to folks in BB for advice about how to handle the situation. The folks in BB were given some of the immediate details, but not the historic context, considering the FS/ED conflict had spanned multiple ages at this point with some dick plays on both sides. They had given recommendations based on that, without doing any investigation.

I asked ED leadership what they wanted to call it a day and end it. They wanted the honor restored and a deal with FS/pyro/BB (ideally they wanted one to let them fight FS again later in the age, that wound up getting axed because it would be impossible to legislate a fair fight). They didn't actually ask for additional restitution beyond that. I told flogger they wanted the honor they lost to Pyro off FS; BB offered to put up the honor to resolve things and make it easier because a bunch of people were pissy. Helluva/Tad accepted that -- I think Parth was offline at the time.

Presumably if the 'wronged' kd says the punishment is acceptable, you're fine.

[Goodwitch]

y'all realize how warped that all sounds to anyone not in that select circle right? an honor kingdom loses honor, demands honor from honor kingdom that committed an offence...land whore kingdom offers honor instead, deal gets accepted while monarch(Parth? just a guess here) is offline...

honor kingdom gets razed into war, gb commences on opponents before any investigation even, alliance waves opponents continously while honor kingdom runs massacres and whores more honor.

please correct me if I made any mistakes in this summary

[lampost]

Pale is running his kd, which I think folks refer to as Crazies.

The situation was particularly awkward -- ED had offered FS an EOACF earlier that same day, which FS was declining running up to when pyro waved ED, shortly after which FS hit back some as well (as ED continued to hit FS). Obviously FS/Pyro were in the wrong.

I was asked by some folks in ED leadership to help with the situation. By the time talks concluded, as SF points out, Nesta had essentially indicated that he had been asked to wave ED by FS. At this point, it was clear that FS/Pyro were at fault. It came out that FS/Pyro had spoken to folks in BB for advice about how to handle the situation. The folks in BB were given some of the immediate details, but not the historic context, considering the FS/ED conflict had spanned multiple ages at this point with some dick plays on both sides. They had given recommendations based on that, without doing any investigation.

I asked ED leadership what they wanted to call it a day and end it. They wanted the honor restored and a deal with FS/pyro/BB (ideally they wanted one to let them fight FS again later in the age, that wound up getting axed because it would be impossible to legislate a fair fight). They didn't actually ask for additional restitution beyond that. I told flogger they wanted the honor they lost to Pyro off FS; BB offered to put up the honor to resolve things and make it easier because a bunch of people were pissy. Helluva/Tad accepted that -- I think Parth was offline at the time.

Presumably if the 'wronged' kd says the punishment is acceptable, you're fine.

Well I dont necessarily agree with that. On the same token we also agreed to an EOA cf with FS after the incident. That does not mean we felt the situation was resolved in anyway shape or form. There was just nothing we could really do about it. We had to suck up the db and hit into hostile. Take ED, it seems from what silverfox was posting that ED were not happy at all with the outcome. They wanted to honour crown. What were they going to say? fairplay completely controlled the sever last age and could do what they wanted. You actually point out yourself as much that ED wanted a war later on but were refused because people were "pissy". Why didnt FS give up their honour?

Furthermore, we see other kds complaining about how they were bullied (I'm not getting into the details) and taken advantage of with threats and the like. The cases posted are only the published ones. Reminds me of a teacher I once had 'you can cheat as long as you dont get caught.' And then just in case, we have our allies.

Back to the original point, pyro and FS were not punished at all and clearly feel like they can speak and do like they want to anyone. This just entrenches people's views on the top and specifically 'fairplay.' that their is chronic abuse and manipulation.