How useful is wpa on core attackers?

[Astinus]

What's the role of wpa on core attackers? I'm still learning utopia so I might be very wrong here, but my understanding is that wpa is mostly linked to economic warfare since fireballs=dead peasants so in the core it's only useful when it's higher than enemy core on average, so you can use your own attackers mana to deny your enemy attackers economy from the start.

But is it really worth it? Most attackers enter wars with very high draft and almost no peasants, so while the impact of fireballs is minimal on them (but it might force them to lower wages eaerlier).

The other use of wpa is to protect eventual acre gains on said attackers and allow peasants to populate them and thus generate gc, but for this you'll require a very high wpa for attackers and even then it will be easy to shut them down anyway.

Meanwhile higher wpa means lesser opa and dpa, while making it easier for them to chain you.

So I'm asking more expert players than me what's their take about wpa on attackers. Is it worth it to go over 2 at any point of the age? Why?

[Bo To]

2-3 wpa on attackers is worth a lot. Once chained the wpa jumps to the sky combined with insane sci and good mana(and some rune donation) - you can destroy enemy's economy(not on attackers but on t/ms). You also can cast ET on rogues if needed.

Unfortunately most ppl are using their high mwpa to cast LL instead of using their momentum to win the war for the KD.

Please note if needed: the FB/ET's dmg is not NW or guild % related. That's how every chained attacker can be turned into insane mage for few ticks but as I said - I don't see it much.

[Wolzly]

Isn't landlusting (and expanding pop-space, thus keeping more military) a viable choice as well?

I love attacker wpa, don't get me wrong, but I would want them doing FBs before being chained (30%-50% success is better than no attempts at all), and LLing to preserve military #'s once chained.

To answer the OP, not that I am an expert player, I would never have attackers go over 2raw wpa intentionally.

[Bo To]

Using LL Is selfish play. Even when you get the land you can't protect it. Peasant control is much more important especially on targets that are hard to fb/kidnap. When you are chained you don't need to keep huge army. You need to have enough off to make 4-5 attacks.

[texn]

LL is valid to keep more military yes. Otherwise using it to keep control over enemy eco is wopwop nice :)

[noobium]

pa is less important than total wizards and relative science levels, due to how acres fluctuate...

but yeah it's super important for long fights.

[Panthira]

Using LL Is selfish play. Even when you get the land you can't protect it. Peasant control is much more important especially on targets that are hard to fb/kidnap. When you are chained you don't need to keep huge army. You need to have enough off to make 4-5 attacks.

Wut?

[noobium]

LL is pretty valuable when used in combination with chaining, whether it comes from your core or (preferably) defensive provinces. It's really hard to execute such a strategy early in war though, because required wpa advantage is way too much for a core attacker unless the target were somehow prepared (not counting badly run attackers). It's also stupidly expensive in runes, which can be especially problematic for a kingdom down in acres.

I really don't like using fb unless I have no other way of controlling economy (and the way most ghettos try to control econ is pretty bad). Fireballing the province doesn't really kill it, it's more to stall for time so you can set up what you'd really like to do long term.

[Astinus]

LL is pretty valuable when used in combination with chaining, whether it comes from your core or (preferably) defensive provinces. It's really hard to execute such a strategy early in war though, because required wpa advantage is way too much for a core attacker unless the target were somehow prepared (not counting badly run attackers). It's also stupidly expensive in runes, which can be especially problematic for a kingdom down in acres.

I really don't like using fb unless I have no other way of controlling economy (and the way most ghettos try to control econ is pretty bad). Fireballing the province doesn't really kill it, it's more to stall for time so you can set up what you'd really like to do long term.

How do you control economy?

[sl0hnd]

So I start with 2 WPA/TPA [more likely 1.7] get chained and then use my higher wpa/tpa on one or more of the guys that chained me. LL if I need the acres to prevent overpop. Otherwise FB and Tornados. Storms etc.

[Bo To]

You can't use your higher tpa. Thieves refuse to work when significantly overpop, they run(which can be controlled) and the dmg is NW based.

Magic however is different. You can cast spells no matter how chained you are. However for duration spells(greed, explo, storms etc.) you need guilds(which chain attackers don't have much). So instant dmg spells are the best - ll, fb, et. Tornadoes could be useful but it's expensive spell.

How do you control economy?

Good question. FB should be combined with chastity(still the peasants can be kidnapped) but this is more about team strategy than strategies and options for superior wpa.

[Goodwitch]

wpa is worth the opa you lose for it any day. not only can you fireball, greed, storm,tornado, pitfalls and such depending on race/pers,which frees mana of the mages to cast harder spells, you also save yourself from the other kingdoms mages. cost of mana and runes for every failed spell makes a huge difference.

[dieaready]

Using LL Is selfish play. Even when you get the land you can't protect it. Peasant control is much more important especially on targets that are hard to fb/kidnap. When you are chained you don't need to keep huge army. You need to have enough off to make 4-5 attacks.

LL allows the attacker to last longer, so the enemy has to hit him more. Extending the duration of being the meatshield is always good for the team...

That being said, IMO I run little wpa as an attacker. ~1 wpa is more than enough for me as while you MAY be able to toss off FBs and LL, you need runes incoming, which spoils your tb, which you need for gold/gc aid after the chain is over. Besides, you only have a window of maybe 3-6 ticks to cast, and after that you'll be spent. I'd rather put that 1-2 wpa to more ospecs/dspecs/elites as the primary role of an attacker is to be able to hit hard and take chains. And if you are not immune to the plague and there are enemy UDs you'll be spending most of your mana trying to get rid of plague or keeping up your selfspells anyway. Plus once chained you can't expect to keep your 6+ wpa for long and expect to have any sort of army either.

Less wpa also means that when you are being chained your kdmates can have an easier time to fb you, which helps to prevent overpop tremendously. I've done it and been done that on and it works fairly well. The only real reason to have any semi-reasonable wpa is to prevent other attackers from fbing you at the start. If I play a pure attacker I usually run anywhere from 0.5 - 1.2 wpa and don't bother to pump wpa and just let it grow normally, so recovery is quicker as well.

[sl0hnd]

So as a meatpopsicle wpa/tpa is unimportant. I hope my Baron, Count, and Vicecount TM bros appreciate this.

[beans]

If core attackers dont run tpa/wpa then my core attackers that do will op the living sh*t out of you. The "defense" tpa/wpa is not against mystics and rogues, you just cant compete there unless your hybrid, its defense against other attackers. 3tpa/3wpa and you get opped by 8 tms or what ever. <1 tpa/ 1wpa and youll get opped by 25 provs. thats a ton more op damage you will take for saving a bit of pop space.