Would UD or Avian be easier to manage for newer player?

[Lime88]

Hey everyone. This will be my second age playing and thinking between the Undead or Avian race as an attacker.

Last age, our KD just grew out of war the entire age. I was a halfling sage and after getting some great help here, ended the age at ~3900 acres. Was really happy with that, didnt expect I could end up growing so much and end up holding onto the acres :)

This age our KD is planning to do some warring and I'd like to be an attacker again. My first two choices were UD/War Hero or AV/Cleric. Just wondering on some of your thoughts on those choices. I was maybe thinking of Avian/Tact and running lots of hospitals...

On the fence about Orc and Human. The bonuses sound nice.. but when first reading the changes Avian and Undead really appealed to me. Just sounds fun haha.

[Milkman]

Undead is without doubt the most easily to manage race. You can't starve and your offense hardly dies on attacks. I suggest tactician over war hero. It will be hard to stack up honor as an attacker in general. You will get hit. Getting beyond baron as an undead is often more luck than wisdom :)

With tactician you got a speed bonus and do not neccisarily need barracks. Also you can take intel for your kingdom mates with 1 thief. That saves thief lives and stealth that could be used on stuff undead can't do :)

[Bo To]

I would suggest warrior over tact or wh. +1 gen is a huge boost and something you can't compensate with buildings. Also +10% OME is free of NW attack. During wars you either will grow a lot and will do 1-2 main hits and the rest mass/razes on weak provs or you will be chained and you will need that 1 gen more than the bonus attack speed.

[StratOcastle]

I agree that undead are mechanically the easiest, but avian cleric can get out of trouble faster. The one drawback to undead is the inability to steal. This isn't a deal breaker, just a reminder that you'll be more dependent on kingdom aid.

While I'll recommend the undead tactician along with these guys, experience is invaluable. I started playing Utopia with avian tac and got advice along the way. I then played undead cleric for several ages because I had reasoned out some effective tactics.

Avians are best in the hands of high activity players. If you're only active up to waves then undead is the proper choice. If your kingdom is poor at waves and sporadic with activity, and you're a very active player, I'd explore avian cleric. Consider the volume of attacks you have as speed reading; that's what I earned running avian tac. You see more information faster and can start to see the field of play. Now I'm not trying to turn you into me. I'm a staunch independent player and travel different kingdoms all over the charts.

Specifically, undead tac can gather intel much easier without losing thieves. They're fast and match up well against most attackers. They're immune to plague, require no food and have great self spells. A well run avian however can defeat any other heavy attacker build in the game. Lucky for us there are very few well run avians.

As a small word of advice: kingdoms with decent war records and/or just a smattering(3-4) avians in an otherwise uniform kingdom(mostly undead or mostly orcs) are usually the guys you watch out for. This means they were offered the choice to be avians and weren't assigned the role.

Good luck.

[Bart of Sparta]

Human is probably the easiest race in the ghetto atm.

[Wilmington]

If you can do 3/day then by all means play Avian. Hosps are a lot less effective because you will always have them building and the barren land you just got home with. A bunch of them can also be burned/razed. Make it automatic, -35% all the time is nice. Doing 3/day instead of 2/day increases your losses by 50%. Clereic makes that -2.5%.

[handofthrawn]

Yeah honestly human cleric is completely newbie proof.

[StratOcastle]

We could say this about a lot of stuff. Dwarves have free build and you can't buy a bad unit.

Orcs have no-brainer offense. Even going full elite makes you an absolute threat at comically ludicrous heights.

If you want to steal stuff you can be a halfling rogue and do the obvious. Train thieves, build dens, steal stuff.

The nuances in the game are deep. 9 out of 10 guys running a human cleric will get chained as easily as an orc warrior, and that's not criticism. Even a player that knows what their doing can get chained while their pooping, if the enemy is wave efficient. Learning how to lean on enemy weaknesses with optimum leverage, or how to absorb punishment. Knowing when to follow orders and when to go commando. Recognizing objectives and baiting enemies to false ones. Thinking ahead and building a province with 2 stages of performance. These are the differences.

[noobium]

Orc is easier than both.

[Elit]

Lime88, if you want to be attacker go Undead/WarHero. Its most solid and easy choice for solo play/ghetto play. If you want to be T/M go for Elf.

[tiggis]

Lime88, if you want to be attacker go Undead/WarHero. Its most solid and easy choice for solo play/ghetto play. If you want to be T/M go for Elf.

The problem with Undead WH is that it loses advantages early.
If you are playing correctly you should have All elites or mostly elites when the war starts and as the age progresses.
Dragon immunity is nice, but unless your entire kingdom runs it, you will still have to help kill the dragon, and a good kingdom will focus you while your mates are getting mashed under fluffy.
Income immunity sounds great but basically you cant be rioted.
Good luck keeping any honor as an undead attacker.


Tact is most likely the strongest followed closely by Warrior then strangely Heretic.

[greaps]

In response to avian or undead. Undead is easier to play. You will have higher army values relative to each other, and Tactician is the best choice in my opinion, followed closely by Warrior.

I like Tactician, since you will not need barracks. And with clear site spell and a small % of WT's will be better defended than most attackers against thieves. Add to all this no farms needed, and you have a lot of space efficiency in and out war.

[dsqrd]

Undead requires the least micro-management to play well. The lack of thieving just means you have less to mess with. No need for food. No need for hospitals. No need for food scientist. Not much need for thief science. If you want easy, go undead.

War hero won't function as well, but it might be easier to play because of the ospec conversion to elites.

[StratOcastle]

I was lucky enough to play in a casual kingdom with a few decent province managers. One was a human sage and the other an undead war hero. They did very well in a tough environment.

Again, not recommending these but clearly neither are out of their element. We weren't hiding or taking easy wars. What I am doing is letting the OP know the options are out there. It's clear different players have different ideas on what's easiest.

I have a perspective based in your environment. Immediately, I can guess a player given a choice to play what they like is in a disorganized kingdom. This is fine, but a very important detail. This generally means the build must be more independent because assistance is not reliably forthcoming.

I can also recommend undead tac for some of the things that aren't obvious. Since you can't steal but you have a fast, sturdy offense you can do the unthinkable in war and plunder with a tap. This might be seen as an act of desperation, but the smart money is in taking the initiative. Act before need, or you may not have a sweet target in that narrow window of desperation. Remember, you can't steal. Because you can gather intel easier and don't use thieves for anything else, don't let that trick you into under training thieves. This is a mistake a lot of players make. A true aggressor is a creature of opportunity not ludicrous offense at all cost. Wait till you run into the halfer core with WTs. We did last age.

Most players bastardized attacker roles instead of leveraging their full advantage. I see this everywhere and it's why shleps like myself can handle what appears to be far more efficient enemy builds in organized kingdom alignments. By empathizing with the player, based in the evidence of their questions, we can provide them with accurate advice.

[Elit]

The problem with Undead WH is that it loses advantages early.
If you are playing correctly you should have All elites or mostly elites when the war starts and as the age progresses.
Dragon immunity is nice, but unless your entire kingdom runs it, you will still have to help kill the dragon, and a good kingdom will focus you while your mates are getting mashed under fluffy.
Income immunity sounds great but basically you cant be rioted.
Good luck keeping any honor as an undead attacker.


Tact is most likely the strongest followed closely by Warrior then strangely Heretic.

I dont agree with you at all...but im not used to explain :P