Undead or Orc? WH, WARRIOR or TACT?

[viceroid]

What's best on a regular KD that needs heavy attackers?

And why?

[Demascuss]

Undead Warrior. 10% OME, 5th General for extra oomph and is extremely useful if/when chained, best retainable offense. Plus extra room due to not needing farms

[Delusional V]

It depends a lot on kd setup. It was a back and forth with my guys on it. We settled on orc warriors.

Ud need an eco to help support the leet pumps. While orc also need this, not so much as ud do.

The gains for orc can not be ignored. Added gains is a big deal, there is no way to get those gains any way else other then playing orc. Ud attack losses can be got with hospitals for example.

Wh is trash on attackers 90% of the time. Attackers get hit. It is very, very hard to hold honour as an attacker and is mostly luck rather then skill.

[Jgrhymes]

We also had a long discussion on this and the UD Warrior ended up being the call. Depending on activity level you could definitely make a case for UD Tact but if you aren't in/out then you aren't really using it to its potential. 10% OME and an extra general is generally good regardless of activity level.

[Persain]

undead warrior and orc cleric are your standard attackers. bread and butter. Heres why.

BEST OPTIONS:
-undead warrior: The MOST offense per nw you'll fine the only draw back is lack of theif ops

-Orc cleric: lots of off and great sustain. 99 times outa 100 your better of not leting your chained people get crushed to nothing. orc cleric allows you to sustain that unless your stupid enough to get hit army in....drawbacks include lower mod off than undead warrior, weaker science mods, no plague.

-Mixing the two ^^, If you plan to mix undead and orc you basically require orc cleric or you self plague the orcs constantly. It can be quite self damaging and means u really need that orc to be cleric. As i said before those undeads warriors have the MOST off per nw of any race, adding in plague is amazing and if u can NM wave or shell someone into starting a chain that 5 taps+plagues OMG you got it good. The reason you dont like undead tact is sycned armies if you have 5 people on 12 hour attack times and 5 people on 10 hour attack times your chains are gonna suffer. (suggest 2-1 mix orc/undead)


Worse options

-Avains: Viable one can debate merrit in a setup However a "regular' kd is going to be attack 3/day kd wide and 3-4 avains as "part" of your core is saying 'raze/tornado these guys and shell, they'll gain lots of usless acres and setup for easy acres later.

-Anything war hero: See avain it needs to be a kd strategy where no dragons are super important (think top wars where u simply "cannot" kill a dragon) in normal kds your not benefiting "enough" on the core to make up for dragon still effecting t/m's and hybrids so u still have to slay and boom wasted personality.

-Anything Tact- 10 hour attack time? very convenient, lol, anyway. You're trading attack speed+CS for warrior or cleric. CS is only really good on a race already running high wt and turtling, pure attackers dont turle and cant run high WT due to the influx of land CS gets MV'ed on yoru crapy wpa anyway....its not like your an elf where MV is hard.
--------Orc Tact Pre chain you can get the +attack speed in rax, however you'll normally max out Tg/stables so that +10 ome form warrior is just "lost mod off", while post chain your just killing leets faster without really attacking for "more gains" +1 general would let u massacre And gain while cleric lets you actually sustain long enough to be usefull late war.
--------For Undead the same thing as orc for pre chain....post chain, +1 general+ extra off v 85% attack? debate-able....undead tact only core MAY work if everyone is chained and both sides are trying to bounce the t/ms into breakable, where 85%~~+1 general/+off.....but the pre chain military almost always flipts for warrior

-Undead cleric--is redundent, undead has spare building space for hostpitals pre chain and once chained already sustains fine so cleric is unneeded.

-Orc warrior is only viable in a specfic strategy that requires the LAND effiency that the race provides (based mod off at a fixed NW undead non undead warrior has more off than orc warrior). This is super rare in that anytime you'd want orc warrior your 99% better off going undead warrior kd wide.

[noobium]

Orc > Undead.

Mixing Undead and Orc isn't really strong. Both have different specializations, use their offense in different ways. They don't work especially well together - Orcs don't really need plague because they should be hitting targets without it, Undead doesn't wreck targets as well as Orc.

While there are lots of situations where Undead is good, Orc bonuses are a lot more consistent and useful whether growing or warring.

Both Orc and Undead should be using Warrior or Tactician. Forget about War Hero.

Orc/Cleric is generally terrible for kingdoms that know what they are doing. Maybe if a kingdom were fielding few Orcs (like 8-10) and rest are not dedicated full attackers, then Orc/Cleric makes sense since all you're looking for is something to keep other attackers preoccupied. If you're fielding 15+ attackers (whether Orc, Undead, or Avian), Warrior or Tactician are much better. Same deal with most personalities - they work better if your kingdom picks one for their core attackers.

You shouldn't mix Warrior with Tact, your core should be all one or all the other. By mixing personalities you wind up negating the speed and offense bonuses of warrior/tact, having to run buildings to compensate on both.

My preference would be Orc/Tactician of all the choices available, due to greater flexibility. Warrior is REALLY good at what it does, but it's more a pick to bash kingdoms oow than for winning wars. In general, Orc is very much about forward momentum - using their gains bonus to chain targets deep, winning conflicts sooner rather than later, and gaining more when they beat down on an opponent. Because the orc is not restricted in ops, nightstriking is a thing - particularly against massacred and razed undead and against any target forced to release thieves.

Undead otoh I'd go warrior for the 5th gen, and live with the nightstrike vulnerability. You have the land to build wt. Unlike Orcs, Undead do better at semichaining targets and maxgaining, wrecking core defense and wearing down the core economically. While undead can run chains deep and should do so in many cases, orcs and avians are a lot better at it. Undead does well in prolonged hostiles and medium-length wars, but is especially vulnerable to being picked apart (even if they pick the more versatile tact). The hard restriction on thievery, and their inability to retain anything but offense, makes them a lot more limited in what they do.

Dwarf/Cleric is surprisingly powerful this age if a player is able to micromanage. It stands up really well to being chained, can adapt to UB, and is cheaper to set up than most attackers. Although money usually isn't a problem, it's still tough to adapt to new eowcf and new fortified, and Dwarf counters that fairly well. The usual problems with Cleric apply - Cleric does nothing against ops and nothing against overpop, and kingdoms can just refuse to hit the Dwarf and all you get is -offense losses.

The changes to science are generally favorable to undead over orc - everyone is basically locked at what would be "average" science under the old system, and orc's -10% affects a permanent cap rather than something that can compensated for with more books.

[Panthira]

I think Orc and UD work very well together, as we proved last round. UD warrior for massive damage with minimal losses, plus hopefully plague added, followed up with a little Orc fun. Yeah, it was nice.