Abduct attack gets NO scientists?

[CannaWhoopazz]

abduct will be good later in the age. patience

[gpimento]

You are aware that the actual real sage bonus is the effectiveness?

the 18/20 scientists give almost nothing right now so getting 30% of almost nothing is still almost nothing.

[Bishop]

Uh, why don't you make me champ?

Feel free to delete my account (Profound Darkness, I plan on just deleting it tomorrow anyway.

You're a joke, along with your little game.

24 hour ban and account deleted. Glad I could help.

[Persain]

My point was simply, 1 scientist is worth much more than a few books. If min gain is 1 it will be broken. Fast hitting attackers could max out their Sci in a matter of a few weeks. Not to mention how much weaker it would make TMs who seldom can abduct.

Eh i disagree if you want to speed WEEEKS pumping science via abuct why shouldnt you have an advantage. Its the same way someone who grabs land or pumps wpa has an advantage. Science was changed becuase it encouraged no action and rewarded size only. Allowing for learns at all sizes encourages action and once you get near max science discourages picking on weaker kds. Now we have to wait to farm weaker kds till they get enough science instead of taking some and moving on.

Similarly the t/m argument is 100% wrong. Let say base gains are 1 scientist if you have >75 IN NW range. If your t/m gets science raped when at 100 sciencets to say 80 now the only way to recoup science is going to be 100% suicides. You risk geting massacred and losing 6 wpa and 5 tpa to slowly recoup science. And u'll need that science as the wpa/tpa mods are down across the board. In comparison an attacker risks almost nothing .5 wpa v 2 wpa isnt war ending if one of your attackers gets massacred. If there was a cap to science gains of 1, in every war t/ms could learn zero def attackers once unbreakable gaining 4 scientists/unique. The idea would be t/m's gain science in war, lose via randoms out of war. (remember zero def guys are going to be more common since you dont have as much +pop when chained)

[Bishop]

the 18/20 scientists give almost nothing right now so getting 30% of almost nothing is still almost nothing.

On day one a sage could have 26% income instead of 18%. Or the same alc sci and 2.4% more pop, or once they go to professors they can run 30% all sci and 3.3% pop while everyone else has 2.2% pop less.
And then when people actually get scientists they can out abduct them easily.

It's just past day 2, no one has scientists. The protection will really be worthwhile later on, or in war when they throw abducts at chained provs to overpop them more.

[Bishop]

Eh i disagree if you want to speed WEEEKS pumping science via abuct why shouldnt you have an advantage. Its the same way someone who grabs land or pumps wpa has an advantage. Science was changed becuase it encouraged no action and rewarded size only. Allowing for learns at all sizes encourages action and once you get near max science discourages picking on weaker kds. Now we have to wait to farm weaker kds till they get enough science instead of taking some and moving on.

Similarly the t/m argument is 100% wrong. Let say base gains are 1 scientist if you have >75 IN NW range. If your t/m gets science raped when at 100 sciencets to say 80 now the only way to recoup science is going to be 100% suicides. You risk geting massacred and losing 6 wpa and 5 tpa to slowly recoup science. And u'll need that science as the wpa/tpa mods are down across the board. In comparison an attacker risks almost nothing .5 wpa v 2 wpa isnt war ending if one of your attackers gets massacred. If there was a cap to science gains of 1, in every war t/ms could learn zero def attackers once unbreakable gaining 4 scientists/unique. The idea would be t/m's gain science in war, lose via randoms out of war. (remember zero def guys are going to be more common since you dont have as much +pop when chained)

Min gains of one scientist are problematic. As is gaining off a new prov with no extra scientists.

[gpimento]

Min gains of one scientist are problematic. As is gaining off a new prov with no extra scientists.

why not use a formula like this one:

"roundup(rand(-0,05 to +0,1)*number of scientists)"

This example would have 1/3 of chance for 0 scientists and 2/3 of giving 1 to up to 10% scientists... not the 100% of 0 scientists right now (obviously the numbers are just examples and in the end you chose the real formula, but at least this way it work sometimes)

[Persain]

Min gains of one scientist are problematic. As is gaining off a new prov with no extra scientists.

i get that it allows you to massively down-feed for 1 scientist and that could be bad. Its why i expected base gains to be ~5% minimum. Right now we've had orc warriors +4 an attack on someone with 21 scientists perfectly into nw range, no gbp, no univercites and get 0.

1/(21)/1.2/1.125=3.53% that means gains are at most 3.5%.

The issue i have is that

It's just past day 2, no one has scientists. The protection will really be worthwhile later on, or in war when they throw abducts at chained provs to overpop them more.

Wont ever happen then. The current gains curve in war means that someone on like 300 acres gets hit for 10 acres by someone on 1500 acres.

300*0.12=36 acres
10/36~28% gains when bottom-feeding a chain in war.

100*0.035*0.2777777=0.97. Since the current formula rounds down that means you'll get 0 gains hitting someone whose chained in war to remove their pop science. The only way to "remove" pop science will be for your own chains to hit in nw range and thats not going to be smart for at many reasons.
-First your trading acres for worthless extra science on your own prov risking you geting deeper chained and losing all your offense.
-Second an in range chain-chain hit of 10% of their land takes more pop space away from them than the max 10% pop science you can remove from a non sage.
- Thrid, given that massacres do 28% tpa and 15% wpa in war, again you can take away what 10% wpa/learn that they risk geting back via learns or u can perminatelly remove the wpa via massacre.
- Finally learns pre chain again are soo weak that its absurd to think 3-4 scientsts is worth not doing a chain hit.



edit....that is unless abuct is twice as powerful in war as out of war just like massacres. If thats the case then you can learn someone down to 50 or so which seems somewhat reasonable for war.