Infiltrate Enemy Guilds:
Currently, there is an op to tell you how many thieves a province has. In fact, wizzies are the ONLY unit quantity that cannot be revealed by an op. Also, there should be a way, in the same op or another, that tells you the current spells cast on the province. It seems wizzies and magic are the only area in a province that an op cannot tell you about. That should change.
lol, I made this suggestion almost to the word a while ago. Never gained any traction. Always just the "Thievery is not the same as magic" argument.
FWIW I love the idea, particularly being able to tell what spells are active on someone, especially since MV has a pure random element to it so you could do 8 successful MV's and not get off that dam CS! would be good to know if they had it on to begin with! haha
I dont see why they wouldnt implement it. Thievery and magic are different, but at the same time, why is it that magic intel is the only intel we cant get? If they spent the time allowing us to implement our own themes, I think they can implement an additional op that has been a long time coming.
This is definitely a worthwhile op to implement!
No there absolutely shouldn't. If you could easily tell what spells are up or not would make a lot of duration self spells loose most of their value. That is unless you remove MV in the process so that there is no way to remove those selfspells.Originally Posted by MaximII
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day, Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
I have to totally disagree with you, using your same argument if survey is a valid thieves op we shouldn't have greater arson since it could make certain buildings useless.
The self spells don't loss value, it makes MV a more strategic spell. MV as on offensive spell is normally only valuable before a wave starts and even then you have no clue how effective it was.
I totally agree an option should exist to list current active spells, doesn't need to list remaining duration. Then strategic decisions can be made with that knowledge
You can't compare GA that does linear dmg which is NW connected and is available only to rogues with MV that is high risk high reward but NW independent and is available to everyone...
This is silly, your example is not even remotely comparable. My case pertains to defensive spells and you go off on some completely unrelated tangent about an offensive spell. The entire reason for defensive self spells is to provide some form of defensive function, if you make it trivial to counter the spell then you make the spell itself worthless. Neither Survey nor Grand Arson is a defensive spell, and GA doesn't make buildings useless, the effort of reducing those buildings to rubble is much greater than a few MV's and WT's directly defend against GA even as you're trying to burn them down. Therefore your comparison is silly.
An op that would allow you to trivially find out what spells are up would make selfspells for attackers or other low wpa provinces nearly useless. For example Clear Sight, there is currently no way of finding out if it's up other than the "gut feeling" that you're failing "too often". If you could easily tell you can then (fairly easily) MV it until it's gone and then start ops, making it almost completely useless. Thus your options currently are to either waste mana trying to MV something that might not even be there, or accept the higher fails
With Reflect Magic the effect is similar because it's fundamentally similar except that it reveals itself whenever it triggers, thus there's a way to find out if it's present and you can then proceed to MV it. But being able to trivially tell with a single op/spell means you won't either have to spend a lot of mana trying to MV something that might not even be there, or finding out by having a full duration MS go off in your own face.
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day, Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Eldallan - None of the spells would be useless. THey dont stop working if you see em! And who wouldnt MV a province with CS if they are about to OP him?
It's not easy to MV a mystic...
I like the idea of it revealing what active spells are up but not showing the duration. That way you get a glimpse but not too much information.
You don't need the duration. You need to know if the enemy has RM, CS, MP+GP, NB, FL to MV them.
They would become a whole lot less useful to anybody who isn't a TM, they don't stop working but they do loose a lot of usefulness for anybody with MV'able wpa.
If you're about to OP a province that has access you currently have the option of either throwing a bunch of MV's his way, thus you gain use even if the spell isn't up, or you op a bunch until you get the general feeling that you're failing too much considering relative tpa. Those are currently your only two options and I think they're fine.
Now if the mods where to add something like this(which I think they shouldn't) I think the difficulty should be on par with the most difficult current ops And have the same 20% random chance to produce something useful that MV does, ie it has a 20% chance for every self spell up to inform the caster that said self spell is up. Thus you'd have to think rather hard on if you want to commit resources to finding out what current self spells the target has up and then potentially countering them.
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day, Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
The other thing that we are forgetting that limits the abuse of this op, is if offensive spells are currentlying up (ie: MS, greed, etc) with defensive spells that would probably make it less likely an attacker would want to MV the prov for risk of removing one of there current offensive spells.
And MV still only has a 50% chance per spell and is expensive and might waste valuable mana, so even with knowing what spells are up you have to weigh in all those risks.
Also reflect magic could be interesting, since it would reflect the spell before it had a chance to effect the prov, making that spell more defensive then before.
So it's NOT OP to know when an army comes home, the military efficiency, science, when buildings are put in, if they have WT's, or their TPA... but knowing their WPA and any spells they current have active... that is OP? By that argument, we should get rid of all intel. We should just throw thieves at provinces and assume the failures are due to high thieves or WT's. We shouldnt have SoM's and just assume failed attacks are because their army is bigger. Why is knowing the number of wizzies a province has an the current active spells any different than any other intel available?
Also, knowing what spells are active doesnt make them useless. Duration times do not really matter in the long term because a good province manager will simply re-up them when they near ending. If you think this makes MV more powerful, then your logic also suggests that infiltrating thieves dens also makes exposing thieves OP. As for "not wanting to MV due to finding out what offensive spells are active".... apparently your kingdom doesnt use an intel management system that already tells you that stuff.
I like how the argument over this is "too much information" when you can literally see every other detail about a province with intel and bots... but we are drawing the line at active spells and wizzies? Really?
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