Whats with the new SCIENCE

[Earth]

At first I thought this new science system was to decrease the advantage the higher tier (acre whores) players would have over lower tier players, but after playing with it for last few weeks, I doubt that had anything to do with the changes. In all honesty this is a very disappointing change and its sad to see changes being made that only put casual players at a further disadvantage. Abduct is terrible, revelation seems worthless, and being able to interchange scientist into whatever category you what without limit gives a huge advantage to the already talented kds (which I am in)....every age we have less and less people play, so I am very curious as to why this is a better system than the last? To the casual player this puts them at a further disadvantage because to compete it now requires to switch scientist before every move.

If anything this science system is more frustrating, more time consuming, and way less rewarding than seeing 5 million books at the end of the age and thinking you did a good job. Maybe i'm the only person who thinks that this was a poor move and power play for the acre whores to have transmutable science, but I am unable to come up with any reason why this would be good for the game VS the old system.

[beans]

I like that sci isnt tied to land any more. And that its limited in pumping. I think having a sci similar to how a prov has build space, or has generals, makes a lot of sense. However the randomness is crap, some provs are at a huge disadvantage because of something totally out of their control and their is no way they can realistically fix it... other than getting lucky. and instant sci swapping is crap. we need a level below novice that gives zero sci for a while.

Im hopeful for the future of sci changes though, we took a step in the right direction but like three steps in the wrong direction. If we keep the good and cut the bad we will make some serious progress to a better balanced and more fun game!

[Goodwitch]

At first I thought this new science system was to decrease the advantage the higher tier (acre whores) players would have over lower tier players, but after playing with it for last few weeks, I doubt that had anything to do with the changes. In all honesty this is a very disappointing change and its sad to see changes being made that only put casual players at a further disadvantage. Abduct is terrible, revelation seems worthless, and being able to interchange scientist into whatever category you what without limit gives a huge advantage to the already talented kds (which I am in)....every age we have less and less people play, so I am very curious as to why this is a better system than the last? To the casual player this puts them at a further disadvantage because to compete it now requires to switch scientist before every move.

If anything this science system is more frustrating, more time consuming, and way less rewarding than seeing 5 million books at the end of the age and thinking you did a good job. Maybe i'm the only person who thinks that this was a poor move and power play for the acre whores to have transmutable science, but I am unable to come up with any reason why this would be good for the game VS the old system.

you are not the only one. I was told I don't understand the new science.

[Earth]

I agree with you 100%.There needs to be a reliability factor in science so if scientists are the future this random spawn nonsense needs to be change. Science contribution when/where used to be a skill or at least part of a strategy, now its so much less and way more lame having to flip everything around. If you move your science for 24 hours they should be nothing or at least have minimal effects. 1 step forward to fix the problems and even the scales to the nubs, 3 steps back to give the hardcore players their advantage.

[Milkman]

Hardcore players will always have an advantage. Hardcore players play in good kingdoms and are surrounded by good and knowlegdeable people. That is an advantage you can't tackle with mechanic changes. Hardcore players will simply see how to utilize such changes yo their max potential faster and in well organized such information is shared rapidly. There is no real way to level the playingfield between hardcore and casuals unless you want to punish skill and activity. And please stop making topics about that the playerbase is decreasing. That has nothing to do with hardcore or casuals or nubs. The weak have always been food for the strong. Text based games simply went out of fashion 10 years ago and utopia is totally unapealing to a younger generations.

I like the randomness factor because it makes science pumping obsolete. That way i am not forced to squeez in boring weeks of science pumping in order to remain competitive late age.

[Palem]

Off the top of my head the big draw is that science and war now interacts much better. Science and war were terrible with each other using the old system. If you grew, then your science was diluted and you would need to pump to catch back up and take away from your time playing. If you got chained then you most likely also ate a bunch of learns which means you not only have to take time to regrow, but you needed to repump the sciences you lost.

Tldr: not needing to pump science makes utopia better

[Goodwitch]

I would just like to know why it is then that most complaints come from warring kingdoms while the ones that like it are largely whoring kingdoms and people that aren't playing.

[Thunder TA]

my kingdoms mostly likes it.I think most complaints tho sadly or just because its new and the random ones you get

[Bishop]

Earth, I am not dismissing your feelings on the new system but I would say that, in general, it is leagues better for non-top kingdoms. So far we can see that we need to tweak revalate and labs a lot and probably incorporate a catch up mechanic but the overall goal is being reached.

[Bishop]

I would just like to know why it is then that most complaints come from warring kingdoms while the ones that like it are largely whoring kingdoms and people that aren't playing.

Valid question. I apologise if I cut you off before but the way sci works now is massively advantageous to lower ranked kingdoms. I appreciate that you disagree but me and you are at are fundamentally disagreeing and it's not my place to constantly disagree with players, no matter how strongly I feel. We encourage challenges, it's what's utopia is all about.

[Goodwitch]

Valid question. I apologise if I cut you off before but the way sci works now is massively advantageous to lower ranked kingdoms. I appreciate that you disagree but me and you are at are fundamentally disagreeing and it's not my place to constantly disagree with players, no matter how strongly I feel. We encourage challenges, it's what's utopia is all about.

I never want you to think that I don't appreciate what you are doing.

The problem is not that I don't understand the science but that those that it is supposed to help don't understand it. For me it's just lots of clicks that I didn't use to do and it doesn't work well on my phone, but those are minor inconveniences.
If the more experienced players are having a hard time getting to the bottom of how things work just imagine how new players feel? This kind of system is only going to help anyone with a decent guide.

Lots of people think I am nuts because I don't enjoy beating someone just because I log more and I know how to move science..or keep science depending on the situation.
It is hard now not to kill provinces in war. Those bug reports that weren't bugs , those things happened before too but not nearly as often and not nearly as fast.
10% pop science on a chained province is not much of a cushion. And that's just if you have that maxed which most do not, especially inexperienced players.

p.s. bishop, never think you have to respond to me, I know you read. Not saying don't but I don't expect it as a confirmation. And thank you for the apology, gladly accepted though I didn't expect that either.

[greendragon2000]

While I like this new mechanic with scientists rather than books, I have to say that the mechanic is flawed. I understand new mechanics have bugs in them (My husband is a software engineer) and I understand the mechanic will get better after its tweaked.

1. I do find it more difficult to gain runes and food. Most of my time is spent Paradising because I have to put more into farms and towers just to get the basic runes and food.
2. Finding targets to steal from is difficult. Heretic is supposed to have a reduced chance of fails, but nearly 85% of my operations are failing. It may just be me, but its frustrating nonetheless.

These are things that can be fixed with the next age, of course, but these are things myself and my KD mates are finding. I enjoyed this game for awhile now since the late 90s at its creation and would like to see it continue.

[Earth]

I was to harsh in my first comment, I apologize to the people who stick the time in to keep this game going. Thank you for your work

@ Palem...You are correct. I do agree that this is step in the right direction and that in theory what you said does make more utopia more fun, but theres just something missing to fully justify this shift. IMHO the desired impact on "fun factor" hasn't been established yet using this new system, but I do give you guys credit for trying (more so than before)

@ Goodwitch....I can use this science system just fine, but I'm a try hard and i don't think I should be able to move my science with such a little penalty. My complaint is based purely for the good of the game, not my personal preferences. With how this system stands now this does give strategical advantages to those that are more connected, which isn't necessary. The good warring kds or whoring kds don't need this advantage over the casuals.

@ Bishop....massively might be an overstatement as long as we can move our science with no REAL penalty , but if your intentions were to even the scales than I do appreciate the effort greatly. If this system becomes more reliable likely new scientists every X amount of days, a 24 cool down on moving them where your scientist count for next to nothing, and a more simplistic layout. Instead of showing every scientist, just go back to the old format so we can shuffle them around using numbers instead of clicks. A guaranteed birthrate will still give the option to the people who want to chill and pump a reason to chill and pump with a heavy labs build. A 24 hour cool down will prevent the strategical shuffling that the more experienced/connected kds will naturally be better at, and more simplistic shuffling of the scientist will no doubt increase the positive perception of this system.

@greendragon...This highlights the only real issue I personally having using the system so far. Runes production is down, but being heretic i can deal, but 12% farms and I still need fertile lands casted. i'm fine with that though if these changes helped to even the scales, which is why I didn't voice that in my first opinion. I'm also heretics and I seem to be failing alot more than I should against people with lower tpa (low wts too).

I honestly thought before bishop and palems replies that some of these issues were falling on deaf ears, but with the quick replies its clear that this science was a good attempt at making this game more fun. Thanks for clearing this up. I will from now on speak more highly of this change and assure any frustrated members that this is just the beginning and that improvements will happen.

[Demascuss]

Personally I'm not a big fan of the current sciences, I did enjoy books and marveling at my total book count at EoA's, but I do see the advantage to the casual/inexperienced player. Rather than having to invest time and resources into science, you literally just choose what science you want to increase, and then sit back and let time buff it for you. Easy and straight forward, especially since you gain new scientists at random and over time.

Given that, the more experienced players who know how/when to swap sciences to best fit their situations have more of an advantage. The resetting of scientists to their minimum output is just the pay off. But I guess that's where having more than the maximum amount of scientists comes into play as well. Get your max numbers, and have a few scientists you can interchange here and there without losing your full benefits.

Give and take. Personally still prefer the old books system :)

[CounTerOrdeR]

Yeah, if the goal was to take all the skill out of sci and turn it into pure randomness the goal was achieved. I got 44 sci atm and i still think think the current system is weak. Atleast before when you got chained you had sci to cover you, now sci is nothing. Why are the caps so low? With caps so low and sci being completely random its become useless, everyone has the same bonus more or less and now next age you want to compound on that? Shouldve just gave learns a gdp so they couldnt be abused during war.

I thought it was cool at 1st but with every day that goes by i miss books more and more. I just dont see the point in taking all the skill out of sci and making it just simply random.