Whats with the new SCIENCE

[Earth]

Zauper it takes skill to get to the numbers you got, unless you think you could do that in a ghetto :) no offense, but i don't think you could.

I agree the caps seem a little low..last age I had 200% magic after our second war win and 20% BE towards EOA....couple that with low spawn rates, the poor abduct rate, poor labs and revelation, it really devalues something that has been a huge part of the game since I can remember, it just seems "meh" but I still agree that its a step in the right direction.

"try staying out of fort" is a frustrating answer for alot of people. It benefits the whore tier cause they naturally spend more time out of fort.....and what are t/ms supposed to do suicide for 0 scientists? With defensive values already less than offensive values to require t/ms to attack to max out scientist or "stay out of fort" isn't a practical function of science for the future of utopia

Ethan I encourage you to stay, i don't know what kd your in but I believe mine has an open spot, maybe you might enjoy your lackluster science over here more :)

[citadela01]

I wonder whats lowest number of scientists out there ?

We have guy on 21 right now. Year 4 and he had grand total of 3 scientists spawned ... needless to say he is not happy about it

[Bo To]

I have 26. A guy in my KD joined 3-4 days ago and have 25 :).

[Bishop]

@Bishop - what on earth do you think I ought to be using econ on? Cause my best plan is to fund gratuitous dragons to try and bully free abduct waves on people, which is even stupider than it sounds, and it sounds plenty stupid. Maybe the CF 20% DR games at the top made econ irrelevant, but it sure never was down here in the warring tier, so I have *no clue* how you think econ helps science.
(And yes, this is a real question, I almost made a separate thread for it. But I've seen a few others asking here as well, so unless it'll be a multi-pager we'll keep it here. I know I'm lame this age compared to my normal standards, and I'd like to fix it.)

Econ = army = science. Go abduct people, you should be able to return 2 scientists a hit easily enough which could be like 4% alc or whatever.

[HerpNDerp]

I agree the caps seem a little low..last age I had 200% magic after our second war win and 20% BE towards EOA....couple that with low spawn rates, the poor abduct rate, poor labs and revelation, it really devalues something that has been a huge part of the game since I can remember, it just seems "meh" but I still agree that its a step in the right direction.

Was your second war win at week 10 of last age? I don't think anyone had that high mage science anywhere close to around this time last age.

[Earth]

well firstt off my signature says age 68 war crown winner so no my second war wasn't in year 10.....

I just didn't contribute science to anything else and was mystic...I did nothing but cast MS, and whore honor. Was number #1honor whore in the game and only 50 points to being the first duke until 46 bounces later :(

It was probably closer to 185% in hindsight, if theres a way to figure it out for sure, i'd be interested in seeing...

[noobium]

Abducts are super weak at effectively 3% of target's science or so.

[Bo To]

Abducts are super weak at effectively 3% of target's science or so.

Yeah because spawning scientists is extremely easy and you can afford losing several...

[Salvatore]

nice work on the science.

[Panthira]

(removed)

[noobium]

Yeah because spawning scientists is extremely easy and you can afford losing several...

I would prefer a land hit to an abduct if I'm hitting for any sort of reasonable goal rather than just hitting to hit. Learn attacks were already questionable when they took 8% of books, why would they be better at 2-3% of science.

Because science is so luck-based it's hard to build a strategy around it, and a whole lot better to play for acres or war/honor... save the troops and time spent abducting and put that towards generating money and hitting targets that will war (or failing that, donate acres and honor).

[ape]

noobium: Is that biting on the top-tier super-kingdoms? To do what? War more? Whore less? Bottom-feed less? Just curious. I'm not in their mindset and not sure i can wrap my own head around i so I wouldn't know.

[Bo To]

I would prefer a land hit to an abduct if I'm hitting for any sort of reasonable goal rather than just hitting to hit. Learn attacks were already questionable when they took 8% of books, why would they be better at 2-3% of science.

Because science is so luck-based it's hard to build a strategy around it, and a whole lot better to play for acres or war/honor... save the troops and time spent abducting and put that towards generating money and hitting targets that will war (or failing that, donate acres and honor).

You can bait someone weaker to war you with learn wave. You can't with trads. After a wave if attackers get land you will need some time to actually pump the new acres on top of the losses and probably will need to go into fort. I don't see how 2-3 guaranteed scientists a day is weak.

[Bishop]

Abducts are super weak at effectively 3% of target's science or so.

Not 3%

[JokerX]

Abducts are not working for me. So far 1 Abduct was a success for me, the rest failed.
I try to abduct a target in range with about 51 scientists and get none, i get hit back twice from that province and loose one scientist on each attack, while holding only 27 scientists at the time.
Did hit a target with 30"ish" scientists and +2h attack time, receive none, get hit back and he steals one.

Science has become a waste of time for me.
I'm now at 27 scientists "again" and the effect from them is not worth mentioning. As a bonus my kingdom had some good attention, so we have to turtle in fort again, leaving me with no chance getting new scientists. With that nice experience in figthing for them, it's too time comsuming for me, so i cant compensate that im lacking scientist. Nearly putting me out of the game. Instead of having a strong heavy attacker prov, i feel like having a ripe troop-heavy prov waiting to be picked from TM's in war.
And even without the the successful hits against me, i would have 32 scientists and its now close to year 5.

I think the rule that you don't spawn scientists in fort should be changed.
Fort Stance is often unavoidable. Not spawning scientists is like punishing them (kingdoms in fort) for having a bad time.
A kingdom using fort often has to catch up because of a heavy beating, but after that they would all need to abduct to compensate the time in fort. They need to catch up, to catch up.