Whats with the new SCIENCE

[jmiedema]

the guy you were hitting was probably in a kd much smaller than you (kd rnw seems to be a big factor with abducts) or the more likely scenario is the guy was hit already hit lightly or medium, and you hadn't been hit yet at all.

GBP, NW range, RNW Range # of scientists (and of course Sage/Universities) all seem to play a large role. Not to mention the base gains are (understandably) low and seem to round down.

There are plenty of people having success against targets in the 30 scientist range, so Im kinda just going to shake your experience as not being told the whole story on the prov you hit. Being in range and with 51 scientists isn't reason enough for you to be worthy of abducting one of them.

[JokerX]

..
I know how to make an attack and i know how to use my thieves jmiedema.

[Madchess]

apparently not well enougth, your story sounds similair to the one guy who dubbeled me on 46 scientists while at 32 himself, clearly he had not seen or chosed to ignore my universities and guard stations representing near 50% and 20% protection or arround that number, he was an orc and got nothing, my return hits yielded 1 each time. If you want to abduct and stay ahead you need universities or you'll lose 1 on the return hit, that is why whoever have a considderable lead will run universities, and why you can't get any of them if you ignore to check for that.

[Earth]

Lol i hope the utopian gods are stilling following this. People are now pretending that theres new skill involved in selecting targets to make this system work. Abduct is weak, and it's not just a few people's opinion. What are t/ms supposed to do for science? Suicide for 1 scientist? I won't continue to play the game if that's how the future is going to be and I'm sure I'm not the only person with this opinion. Half way through the age and i only have 35 scientist...I'l stick around 1 more age, then probably be done if t/ms science is still dependent on a suicide method to max out science...

[ahtoad]

was there any info on effect of universities ? universities % X 5% ? capped at 87.5%protection ?
protection is maxed out at getting 17.5% universities?

[Ganga]

You guys need to sos, and survey if your having problems, as an attacker this new science is amazing... My eco science is maxed and with the ability to switch between war/thieves/magic my war science is always maxed for what i need, use universities in normal stance and you lose nothing if you get a retal. The only people *****ing should be t/m's that don't run an offense.

[Karozg]

The new science system is retarded in my opinion. The last scientist that appeared in my province will be a professor in a few hours. Thats almost 7 days i havent gotten a new one. One of my kingdommates got 5 in one day. A strategy game should not have such randomness in it. At least in the old system we had to make a decision about how much to invest and had more control over it. Now its pure luck.

[Demascuss]

The new science system is retarded in my opinion. The last scientist that appeared in my province will be a professor in a few hours. Thats almost 7 days i havent gotten a new one. One of my kingdommates got 5 in one day. A strategy game should not have such randomness in it. At least in the old system we had to make a decision about how much to invest and had more control over it. Now its pure luck.

Not knocking on ya, as I'm personally not a fan of the new system either, but I'm learning to use/deal with it. And as a STRATEGY game, with the ability to move your sciences around as you see fit, I think you have enough control over it. Use aforementioned strategy to be all powerful.

Although it sucks with the randomness or how many scientists you get, there are ways to increase your "luck" and reduce the "randomness"

[Bo To]

Although it sucks with the randomness or how many scientists you get, there are ways to increase your "luck" and reduce the "randomness"

You are talking about abducts right? Because libs and revelation aren't actually worth having them.

[Madchess]

see my new thread for that topic, should have had arround 60 wo abduct I've made 94 so far with abduct

[Karozg]

I agree you can still do abduct or move scientist around. Everyone can do that and its equal for everyone. But when someone get five scientist a day doing nothing while another doesnt get anything for a week, there is a serious limit to what you can do. Maybe instead of making the scientist appearing chance fixed, it can increase over time until you generate a scientist which would reset the chance. For example instead of a 3% base rate make it 2.5% but each hour it increases by 0.1%. So if you dont get a scientist for 24 hours then your chance will be almost 5% at the 25th tick. This way at least people will be unlucky for shorter periods.

[CCanes420]

Whatever the future change to this new SCI system is, the player needs to have more control over it again. Not factoring science in to your economy makes this far too casual and the game feels much emptier. Also, relying solely on RNG makes entering mid-late age a massive disadvantage (not that the old science didn't provide its own, but you were able to pump yourself and focus sci if needed). I'm not against change, but I have no idea what possibly could have justified the way in which this system was implemented.

[Wilmington]

Control? I have 4-8 free scientists I move around to where I need them during war. That's an extra 10% income at tick or 30% thievery or magic when getting opped or 3% military after they get intel to bounce them. Dwarf Sage rocks!

[CCanes420]

Control? I have 4-8 free scientists I move around to where I need them during war. That's an extra 10% income at tick or 30% thievery or magic when getting opped or 3% military after they get intel to bounce them. Dwarf Sage rocks!

I was referring to accumulation of scientists, not the the reallocation of them.

[Ethan]

"Not factoring science in to your economy makes this far too casual and the game feels much emptier." - CCanes420

"That's an extra 10% income at tick ..." - Wilmington


My personal opinion - this science change has been *the worst* change to the game ever. Worse than happiness (and I speak from experience).

The two quotes describe the problem very well, even with their apparent contradiction. Firstly, I hadn't even fully realized the swap for income at tick point. So now, optimal play involves being on for every single tick of the age - don't sleep longer than 55 minutes, or you aren't playing hard enough. (Never mind it'll get you fired, and take years off your life... you aren't hard-core enough, so don't bother competing with those that are.) I came for a strategy game, but we just keep heaping the rewards on for those that camp the game. I know we can't remove activity benefits from the game (it runs in realtime, so that doesn't even make sense as a goal) - but we could stop making is so stupidly rewarding to be on all the time (or, well, at least having your bot/friend etc).

Yet, even with all this pointless activity required, the crushing blow is how slow and empty the game is. I get as much engagement from candy crush clones - show up when you have some time to waste, do some random things, put it down till whenever again. How did *this* happen?

Bishop had the claim a while back that economy was important for science, maybe more important, than previous ages. Because... the better economy can pump faster to be ready to abduct better/sooner. Think about that for a moment - I complain of a lake of anything meaningful for econ... and the answer is - 'But econ is important in how fast you can remove your econ and make it into military'. I didn't notice the glitch right away, but once I thought more on it, I realized that what Bishop thought of as econ seemed to be the *antithesis* of what I call econ.

(gotta run, so) To wrap that point up... imagine you've got two fairly similar provs, but one is packing 10% more offense. I don't really need to tell you if the pes count is lower, or they passed the banks up - you know that nothing else really matters beyond the basic required defense, and so more offense = stronger. OPNW is the king, and each prov can basically be boiled down to that one number. Know what we call that as a card game? War. Sure, sounds good... but flip over two cards, bigger one wins. Totally mindless.

Again, totally mindless. That is the current state of utopia strategy, and that is why this has (imo) been *the worst* change ever while I've played the game.
(I was not here for the forced reshuffle, so we can dodge that debate.)