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Thread: are elites tankier than dspecs, against spells/ops?

  1. #1
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    are elites tankier than dspecs, against spells/ops?

    Obligatory, I looked on the wiki, but couldn't find this.


    I was wondering if stuff like NM, MS, NS gives lower returns on all elite than on all dspecs armies? Let's assume all else being equal (somehow).

    As far as I know, an NS kills more soldiers than dspecs, even when there are more dspecs. So, I wonder if there is something similar for dspecs vs elites. And if somebody actually has (an indication of) numbers, I'd love to compare these.

    My assumption is that it would be something step-wise decreasing like this:
    1 NS kills 10% of soldiers, 6% of dspecs, 4% of elites.

    And I'd assume the same step-wise decrease is also implemented for NM and MS.

  2. #2
    I like to post MyNameIsMatija's Avatar
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    Yeah it's something like that, I don't know the exact numbers.

    I think propaganda hits random stacks of troops though, I think it even differentiates each stack of troops for each general in your army, not sure really anymore.

    Night strike:
    -Kills 13% solier, 0.55% specs, 0.3% elites

    according to: http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...and-Strategies
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    Tnx for bringing that thread to my attention. It has great detail on the working of NS.

    I see that NM and MS aren't quantified for different troop types, but at least for NM there is also the assumption that it has different damage for different troop types.

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    Would love for someone to spell out exact NM-mechanics. Perhaps someone from Div/FS/Green here? I'm not a huge fan of the spell myself and never built any KDs around it.

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    I've used it, NM, as an individual. It's quite effective in augmented attack situations in war.

    Didn't learn this myself. We had an old grumpy guy in Aggression is the Liquor. He barely spoke to anyone and went about his business alone. Oddly the monarch had mentioned kicking him out, but we all were competing against each other. I'd watch his attack numbers and he was always grabbing huge gains. This guy never requested aid to my knowledge. He was truly the template for my subsequent interest in elf cleric during the reduced losses era.

    Whenever I end up in a kingdom and they shun NM as a wave based initiative I can say I've seen it and used it with impressive results. I can't speak to the numbers because that's not my calling. I did note that when I started stacking NM successes against formidable attackers that I witnessed them go afk. No doubt, NM is fantastic in wave formation, but I've also seen waves stumped by tactics I would've used.

    At that time, avian had Mystic Aura and they could spam this low rune cost spell during a run. The argument being you should then steal his runes, but if you've been in certain wave channels you know that speed is of the essence. By the time word gets around to halt casting and get the halfers on theft the damage is oftentimes done.
    I'm sure most top kingdoms would see this in advance but they aren't built t/m heavy so the situation might never occur.

    One of my favorite features of NM is it effects thieves. This prompts me to not just drop NM on an opponent, but mix in tornados time to time. I generally followed with NS or arson and riots, etc.

    In my Virtual Kingdom I've reasoned out a cross sectional spell set including NM/blizzard and amnesia.
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    Forum Fanatic octobrev's Avatar
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    NM is similar to NS except the ratio of elites that it kills is significantly less. It rips through specs and thieves!
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    Quote Originally Posted by octobrev View Post
    NM is similar to NS except the ratio of elites that it kills is significantly less. It rips through specs and thieves!

    NM doesn't kill anything...?

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    Forum Fanatic octobrev's Avatar
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    "Removes" then. So picky!
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    Quote Originally Posted by octobrev View Post
    "Removes" then. So picky!
    Big difference! Puts back into training (for free! well, at the cost of not having those troops for awhile), except some soldiers may quit. Losers.

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    Forum Fanatic octobrev's Avatar
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    Aren't like 1/3 of them permanently lost? Or something...
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    Nightmares
    The effects fear can have on an individual are amazing. By causing nightmares within the soldiers of an opposing army, you may be able to cause them to quiver in fear. Troops having nightmares have to be rehabilitated and are unavailable for a period of time.
    Is Known: Age 1 ... now
    Available to: Heretic with a minimum relationship of Unfriendly
    Effect: Returns around 1.5% of the military troops (specialists, elites and thieves) under training
    for 8 days.
    Soldiers simply quit the army.
    Duration: Instant Spell with duration effect: Troops in training queue stretching 8 days.
    Cast Message: During the night, X of the men in the armies and thieves' guilds of [Province Name]
    had nightmares.
    Some were forced into rehabilitation, but the soldiers simply quit the army!
    Mystic Advisor Message: N/A
    Throne Room Notification:
    This morning, X of our men from our armies and thieves' guild turned up unfit.
    The Soldiers quit, while the rest are being retrained. They should be available again in 8 days.

    It just says soldiers, so I assume all?

    ETA: Seems useful for getting rid of stacks, too.
    Last edited by Panthira; 21-09-2016 at 01:21.

  12. #12
    I like to post MyNameIsMatija's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by octobrev View Post
    Aren't like 1/3 of them permanently lost? Or something...
    No, only soldiers are permanently lost.

    Now that Anonymity doesn't help with retaining honor during a land drop, Nigtmares could. I've lost 5hp from 1 NM at Viscount rank.
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