Poll - Books or Scientists

[The Moon of Earth]

Which do you prefer?

[BoBDuDe]

I personally don't prefer one or the other.
But I think the real question should be...
Do you prefer flat science (capped) or per acre?

I think that both can be accomplished by implementing a mechanic change to how the lvl of the scientist has effects (output: +% per scientist per lvl) that is acre based.

[Bart of Sparta]

The major issue is that they solved one problem with 2 fixes that individually would've already fixed the issue. The past science tremendously rewarded good players. The new system does not reward good players at all.

[The Moon of Earth]

I just fkn miss pumping sciences and being able to focus my research to particular fields...

[Verminator]

You can't focus your scientists into particular fields now Shaun? Somebody tell this dude where the Reassign Scientists button is!

[Verminator]

And "pumping" is a common game stagnation mechanism. They're trying to remove that sort of mechanism from the game and the mindset of players, pushing more active game playing and less inactive game watching.

[The Moon of Earth]

I mean as provinces grow in acres the need for more books was what caused science pumping ... this age with scientist harder to fill up they will indeed be focuseable ... but it is yet to be seen how easy it is to max out scientists... i found it fun pumping and managing sciences - i hope the books return...

[The Moon of Earth]

Inactive game watching? Focusing sciences was a brilliant thing ... switching from Sustained to Intensive and such things... it was a fun part of playing IMO...

[The Moon of Earth]

People think only attacking is what this game is about? It is also about province design!

[Band of Horses]

The major issue is that they solved one problem with 2 fixes that individually would've already fixed the issue. The past science tremendously rewarded good players. The new system does not reward good players at all.

This is a good post, I hope everyone understands what Bart is saying here.

[sexual harassment panda]

Scientists - pumping science was never really a skill. You just had to get cfs in order and sit there afk for a while. At least now you can war while still getting science. Science was also gated by acres which is a bad system to non-growth kds/provinces.

You still have to pump wpa at some point, but at least it's not needing to pump both wpa and science.

[The Moon of Earth]

You just showed your laziness within game ... afk? Books were wasted each tick if not invested ... for shame!

[Bishop]

I preferred buying science with GC. It was horribly broken, but i loved abusing it.

[StratOcastle]

The mechanics aren't the obstacle for me. I like the thought put into the scientist system, and we all share it. The books were fine to and I was one of the guys that left research on in war.

Rewarding good players tremendously isn't necessary if they're good. You see what I mean? I think what you're saying is a level of balance might be in order, but allow me to reflect:

Last age I experimented with only moving my scientists in BoA protection and province restart: default Bad Player.
So I ran a human cleric most of the age and didn't manipulate. We got stuck in a very long lost war and I emerged the largest province in my kingdom. Attempts were made to take me down but were thwarted and my comeback to stabilized acre fat were immediate.

After the war I was asked to land drop but I decided to start an orc mystic instead. Same deal, even though the orc was critically behind I chose only to move my scientists in protection. This didn't result in me casting better or marching harder. I forced myself to play a better game around the scientists.

It's not a question of better, it's a question of different. I can adapt to both seamlessly because in all actuality I've started as many as 6 new provinces in a single age...on the old system. When I went up to Jerks with 5 weeks left I could march with impunity after 3 weeks.

The implication sexual harassment panda addresses is one I'm well aware of. We shouldn't pretend the good ol' boy system is good play, as in good for the game. If I wanted I could've migrated up, done the drone thing till I got a spot and crap on all below. I find no satisfaction in it, or rolling over to projected logistics.

The Moon of Earth enjoyed the system. I can understand that. Saying that pumping science in a CF shell made the game better is to ignore the fact that even the top has faded away. Emeriti has been a clear class beyond their competitors. So it isn't science that Emeriti is overpowering others, it's superior play.

[Goodwitch]

no offense, science just isn't fun anymore. Most players don't set out to abuse stuff, they just want to have fun playing.

While the mechanic may play to the smaller province's favor as compared to the big ones, the goal behind it does not. Trying to force people to compete in land/nw will just make the player base smaller as the frustration of kingdoms climbing to the top just to be cut down below the size they started with grows. Just like you wouldn't have an amateur boxer that trains 2 hours a week compete against a professional that trains several days a week and has lots of fights to gain experience under his belt, you shouldn't force players that have played for an age or two to directly compete with people that have been playing in the same or similar group for 20 ages.

In my opinion rewarding science for war wins was a step into the right direction, though probably not enough to equal out the pumping some kingdoms do. Making the curve in effects more steep would probably help as well. Awarding science for things other than just buying it would get people more active instead of just pumping. There are lots of ways the problem could be fixed without making science boring and luck based.