Razing into war?

[Crazyguy]

in all honesty when they said they didn't want the war you should've just let it be,you instigated it when you demanded return money on your dragon,all the land you took from them over a few days more then paid for the dragon

as alot say L2 diplo better

Your stewart agreed to let us take gold to pay for the 15 million we sent to the dragon. Then he sends me 3 messages, all within 2 hours, while I was sleeping that if we didn't stop that he would raze into the war. He could have easily said that he preferred to move on, but didn't. You also refused to take the CF that I sent. And as far as the "war agreed" tag, your KD was tagged "war agreed" when your other stewart sent a msg for war. We were only hitting you because we thought that you wanted a war.

[Anri]

Razing into war doesn't generate a meter apparently. .... so that isn't going to work

Incorrect.
Meter will show oow

[Anri]

My name is Paul. I guess that there are 3 of us :)

Ya, three dudes from Ocala it appears :)

[Crazyguy]

Incorrect.
Meter will show oow

No. It does not show. I'm quite sure.

Edit:
Copied and pasted:

Their Attitude To Us Normal (0 points)

[Crazyguy]

Ok when we're OOW it will be at least 2 days until min time

[Anri]

Like i said, it will show oow.
:)

[Palem]

**** just got real.

I am wondering if it is against the rules to arrange a ceasefire with the current warring kd, wd at min time, and deal with the kd which razed into the war.

Yes, it is illegal to arrange a CF and cease warring while you're benefitting from war protections. It is not illegal to negotiate them switching to less damaging attacks while you're still in war, although keep in mind you really don't have much negotiating power and if they're accepting it's most likely our of sportsmanship than anything else (which I've found to be fairly lacking in these parts lately)


Also, war automatically locks your relations with other kingdoms. Like Anri says, when your war status ends, relations will unlock and their accumulated hostile points will show up

[Jonzilla]

Well, I'm learning lots about politics here.

I totally agree with a kds right to threaten to wave into future wars (although not so much in the villain from OP).

Some times its the only thing people will listen to. It's so hard to get a war that isn't fully planned and agreed to, the bonuses are so strong people don't want to enter wars they don't feel like they can win. It's ridiculous how much the metagame has just become: Hide in fort/eowcf and pump > come out with unsustainable suicide strat for immediate war > rinse > repeat
If there's no one to war? just plunder/abduct the hell out of ghettos while you wait. There's nothing they can do about it, right?

Well... why shouldn't the smaller kds find a way to get retal that hurts? If that includes ruining the next war, I'm not taking that card off the table. I wouldn't consider it except for extreme examples, and I don't think it seems like the OPs kd did anything wrong, so its not warranted there.

As far as I'm concerned, breaking the meta is a good thing. Forces people to be more considerate of the consequences of their actions and not just assume 'we're larger in NW, we get a free run'.

[Crazyguy]

Well, I'm learning lots about politics here.

I totally agree with a kds right to threaten to wave into future wars (although not so much in the villain from OP).

Some times its the only thing people will listen to. It's so hard to get a war that isn't fully planned and agreed to, the bonuses are so strong people don't want to enter wars they don't feel like they can win. It's ridiculous how much the metagame has just become: Hide in fort/eowcf and pump > come out with unsustainable suicide strat for immediate war > rinse > repeat
If there's no one to war? just plunder/abduct the hell out of ghettos while you wait. There's nothing they can do about it, right?

Well... why shouldn't the smaller kds find a way to get retal that hurts? If that includes ruining the next war, I'm not taking that card off the table. I wouldn't consider it except for extreme examples, and I don't think it seems like the OPs kd did anything wrong, so its not warranted there.

As far as I'm concerned, breaking the meta is a good thing. Forces people to be more considerate of the consequences of their actions and not just assume 'we're larger in NW, we get a free run'.

They were about 15% larger In NW and had 3k more acres. I abandoned a fully funded ruby dragon that cost us 15 million. This was a cowardly cheap shot, not a little guy getting even with a bully. This was a bully being a bully. They saw that they couldn't push us around just because they were bigger so they did it by razing into war.

[Crazyguy]

Quick update to anyone following. .... we declared as soon as we were oowp, and beat them. Now they are sending msg's to top KD'S to ask for help because we're killing the ones that razed into us.....

[Madchess]

Like a boss, congratulations on your win.

I think people jump on the raze into war wagon way to fast these days.

[Palem]

You're welcome for the advice ;)

Just need to keep your head on straight and consider your options. Too many people fly off the handle when things take an odd turn instead of finding their best move :)

[Crazyguy]

You're welcome for the advice ;)

Just need to keep your head on straight and consider your options. Too many people fly off the handle when things take an odd turn instead of finding their best move :)

Thanks Palm for the advice :) yes I'm glad I didn't fly off of the handle.

[Pillz]

Hide in fort/eowcf and pump > come out with unsustainable suicide strat for immediate war > rinse > repeat
If there's no one to war? just plunder/abduct the hell out of ghettos while you wait. There's nothing they can do about it, right?

This is not new. Previously there were fake wars in addition to fort, and more kingdoms to hit, both to bottom feed on and within range to war.

The current environment means that with limited targets it is preferable to be 100% prepared then to be caught off guard, and the small number of kds makes it feasible to negotiate NAPs with all of them.

Utopia hasn't changed much in over ten years except that as fewer and fewer people play the game becomes increasingly static and for the top in particular less competitive in the traditional sense and more about friendly farmouts.

[Crazyguy]

Here's a snippet:

Game Date April 9 of YR10
Real Date Sat, 22 Oct at 02:34 GMT+00:00
Sender King of Knights of Erin (X:XX)
Recipient war razer (X:XX)
Subject Re:Eh2
War razer said: > > "I have played this game for a very long time."
Me:
Then you should know not to raze into war.

War razer:
"It seemed that your kd had been messing with this kd long before I joined it . Some stuff going on for awhile ."

Me:
Last time we warred, two ages ago, they waved us, we fought, it was a fair fight, they won. No hard feelings and certainly no war razes.

War razer:
"I pushed them to just war you guys . And then so we did."

Me:
No, that isn't what happened. You razed into our war not knowing that it would give us the button"

War razer
"But what is happening now is very dishonorable .. No other way to look at it."

Me:
Dishonorable was hitting into our war. We dealt with it very honarably, by declaring oowp and killing the provinces that did it.

War razer:
"I was one of their most active attackers. Got hit the most in war I think and still came out with more land .. Now you wait until end of war cf to raze my province ?"

Me:
Good for you. You were also one of their least honorable. Good day to you.