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Thread: Need Help with Wars

  1. #1
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    Need Help with Wars

    I know this is an idiotic question, but being monarch for the first time ever, wars just do not seem as fluid as imagined.

    Peeps hitting off target; peeps giving enemy KD button prematurely; peeps doing trad marches into FB targets because "Its in their range"

    Funny when I was a member I can play along with KD strategy but when its you giving the orders, somehow nothing ever works well.

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    What you're asking is essentially "How do I manage/lead peole?"

    You need to find a style that works for you. Some people are comfortable being the Iron Fist and booting anyone that whispers a hint of dissent. Other people are more comfortable being a groomer and trying to shape bad players and make them into good ones. And most people tend to fall somewhere in the middle.

    If it's because they don't understand the mechanics then you should teach them the mechanics or find players that know the mechanics. If it's because you have people that are just downright selfish and aren't willing to take some damage for the good of the kingdom then you need to replace them or change their minds. If your tactics are downright poor and they refuse to be the headless chickens that are lead to slaughter, you should get some help on that front.

    Basically, the most pointed answer anyone can give you is find the problem and fix it, but you need to talk with your kingdom about it, not random people on the forums that aren't knowledgeable to what's going on in your kingdom.

    Hope that helps and good luck :)
    Last edited by Palem; 07-10-2016 at 11:48.

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    As a kingdom hopper I've seen a lot of different styles.

    As far as my recollection, Palem is the only monarch I've knowingly served twice, and I move at least once each age and as many as seven.

    It's not that I don't think there are other worthy monarchs. I'm simply pointing out that Palem is offering sound advice.

    Don't confuse strategic military prowess with the ability to lead. There are a few areas you can delegate authority to get the best out of your kingdom without twisting your stomach in knots.

    Good luck.
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    All you need is coffee and patience,wheter you kill/change them or try to shape them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardelus View Post
    I know this is an idiotic question, but being monarch for the first time ever, wars just do not seem as fluid as imagined.

    Peeps hitting off target; peeps giving enemy KD button prematurely; peeps doing trad marches into FB targets because "Its in their range"

    Funny when I was a member I can play along with KD strategy but when its you giving the orders, somehow nothing ever works well.
    Generally, you always want to hit and thieve targets in nw range. There are exceptions, but if you find your kingdom consistently hitting oor, there is usually something wrong with the strategy (or people are just making stupid hits because they ignore your strategy). Magic, depending on the op, is useful outside of nw range, either because the damage is good (fireball) or you're covering a duration op on a high-value target (MS, for which duration drops off significantly oor).

    Although it isn't always the best method, generally I prefer to just wave outright rather than play button games. That way, all you need to do is make sure your people log in at the appointed time and unload on the target kingdom. Once you have better kingdom-level discipline, you can do limited waves or bouncewaves instead. The trickiest part is learning to handle retal-warring, and a lot of kingdoms are bad at it due to poor hit selection and general nubbery.

    In higher-level wars, fb is usually abandoned in favor of nightmare (if you have heretics) or Tornado/LL. Killing a target's peasants won't take them out of the war. For lower-level wars, you really only need to fb targets that are oor from normal attacks, or do global peasant control rather than individual province peasant control (only once the war has dragged on for sufficient time).

    In lower-level wars, chaining will usually break down after 3-4 days of warring, as attackers move out of sync with each other. This is usually when wars devolve into maxgaining, or triple-hitting low defense provinces + single-tapping t/ms (assuming you brought down some t/m earlier in the war).

    In any war, you should usually only order a chain if you know your kingdom can follow through for significant damage in one wave, either to defspec or (preferably) offense through desertion. Pay attention to your return times, and as always, you'd want to hit in range as much as possible. That removes the incentive of people to hit off-target and does a lot more damage than hitting oor. Sometimes you'll need to drag down an oor target with topfeeding, but usually in these cases your attackers can triple hit anyway if you sufficiently shredded defense / kept up MS pressure.

    I was a fairly terrible monarch so take all of this with a grain of salt. There's not a lot you can do about people doing random silly stuff, and people did that on me basically every war. Lots of people want to take the easy targets and don't have the sense to follow through on harder targets, which is why ghettos have such a hard time dealing with t/m.
    Last edited by noobium; 08-10-2016 at 01:47.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    What you're asking is essentially "How do I manage/lead peole?"

    You need to find a style that works for you. Some people are comfortable being the Iron Fist and booting anyone that whispers a hint of dissent. Other people are more comfortable being a groomer and trying to shape bad players and make them into good ones. And most people tend to fall somewhere in the middle.

    If it's because they don't understand the mechanics then you should teach them the mechanics or find players that know the mechanics. If it's because you have people that are just downright selfish and aren't willing to take some damage for the good of the kingdom then you need to replace them or change their minds. If your tactics are downright poor and they refuse to be the headless chickens that are lead to slaughter, you should get some help on that front.

    Basically, the most pointed answer anyone can give you is find the problem and fix it, but you need to talk with your kingdom about it, not random people on the forums that aren't knowledgeable to what's going on in your kingdom.

    Hope that helps and good luck :)
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    What you're asking is essentially "How do I manage/lead peole?"

    You need to find a style that works for you. Some people are comfortable being the Iron Fist and booting anyone that whispers a hint of dissent. Other people are more comfortable being a groomer and trying to shape bad players and make them into good ones.

    When, I was monarch my goal was to aim for the latter but to know when I needed to employ the former. That is, IMO, if the player is reasonable, and makes mistakes then I'll suffer any annoyance to help them become a better player. If I run across outright defiant and unreasonable players who wont compromise one bit, then I become mr iron fist. My thinking is there is plenty of things going on, and as monarch above all things, IMO, is you put the Kingdom ahead of self and others; keeping in mind that a kingdom = others + self. With that in mind the first thing I try to establish with a player is whether they are willing to put the kingdom ahead of their own wants / needs; that they do their best to minimize whatever inconvenience their real life might impose on the kingdom where reasonable possible. If players show 0 inclination or willingness to ever put the kingdom ahead of their own selfish wants, there is nothing there to work with.
    #magi

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    Thanks for all the response.

    Now the only main question I have now is coordinating T/M ops. Attacking targets are ok but when it comes to handling spells/ops I am at a complete loss. Do i fb down a high peasant province and keep chastity on him? Or do I fb down all other provinces as well?

    We tried the NM run strategy but due to poor activity and coordination the NM run was done but only less than 5 hits was done on the target over 12 ticks.

    Thief ops too, running as heretic myself I am often at a loss as do I do NS on the NS target? Or do i spend my stealth stealing resources or taking intel on hard targets?

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    Find an experienced Mage or Rogue in your KD to help you. You don't have to have all of the answers, you just have to find the talent that is there already and put it to use.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardelus View Post
    Thanks for all the response.

    Now the only main question I have now is coordinating T/M ops. Attacking targets are ok but when it comes to handling spells/ops I am at a complete loss. Do i fb down a high peasant province and keep chastity on him? Or do I fb down all other provinces as well?

    We tried the NM run strategy but due to poor activity and coordination the NM run was done but only less than 5 hits was done on the target over 12 ticks.

    Thief ops too, running as heretic myself I am often at a loss as do I do NS on the NS target? Or do i spend my stealth stealing resources or taking intel on hard targets?
    Too situational questions. Simplest answer - you start with the easiest targets. Find attackers who don't have WTs and NS them. Find someone who has low wpa or have grown and his wpa dropped - put him as fb target. Generally the best fb targets are unds non rogues because they can't kidnap but don't follow on that. If there is an orc with 15-20k peasants - fb him.

    If you don't have the organization for NMs just don't use them. If you have too many runes do ll/tornadoes.

    Is it better to steal or do ns depends a lot on what do you need and what the enemy has.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardelus View Post
    Thanks for all the response.

    Now the only main question I have now is coordinating T/M ops. Attacking targets are ok but when it comes to handling spells/ops I am at a complete loss. Do i fb down a high peasant province and keep chastity on him? Or do I fb down all other provinces as well?

    We tried the NM run strategy but due to poor activity and coordination the NM run was done but only less than 5 hits was done on the target over 12 ticks.

    Thief ops too, running as heretic myself I am often at a loss as do I do NS on the NS target? Or do i spend my stealth stealing resources or taking intel on hard targets?
    If the high pez province is an attacker, so long as his defense is bad he's ripe for chaining (and your own core provs get a substantial pezzie boost). If you can't nm, probably the best course of action is to ns to cut down his defense before dropping the hammer.

    I find focused FB on ordinary attackers to be generally wasteful, though you should only split up fireballs if you're not chaining or are about to stop chaining. When splitting I'll usually leave 1-2 provinces to bloat in acres/pezzies in order to set them up for a future chain. Fireballing for global peasant control is a stalling tactic rather than a tactic that will win wars on its own. Usually though, the important peasants are those on defensive and t/m provinces. If you can fireball other t/ms, great, but usually this is problematic.

  13. #13
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    Noobium is right IMO on this one. FB on attackers is useless or near useless. High peasant counts on attackers = nice peasant gains (again like Noobium pointed out) and makes chaining more effective. The only reasons you'd FB an attacker is if you basically shelled them its late war and you just want to control his economy (there could be other reasons but that one comes quickly to mind). The main value of FB is killing the economy of cows or thieves etc.
    #magi

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    If you have a few talented attackers, you can ask them to go "A/t" - keeping maybe 3-4 rTPA and doing lots of steals against the other attackers. (Some people will still class this as an attacker.) They will give up some offense, but might let you keep your T/Ms on higher value operations. Especially useful if you have lots of attackers but not many T/Ms, since this lets your T/Ms go further... if you have a glut of T/Ms though, this just hurts your attacking power more.

    You probably want the A/t (note the little t - they usually won't be asked to NS cause they don't have good TDs) people to be fairly experienced attackers - knowing how to get the most out of slightly lower offense is important. Little tricks like knowing you'll have opening wave and stealing horses instead of having stables, or kidnapping a bit right after an FB run to force them to do it again - flexibility is more complicated, but can pay well if used fully.

    This is very similar to the idea of trying to use your attackers (straight "A") to do most intel - save the T/Ms for the good stuff. Survey is important for finding those people that didn't get enough WTs or are baiting chains with tons of GS. Sometimes it is important enough to spend the T/Ms stealth even... but better to spend an attacker's stealth.

    I loved halfer last 2 ages for this because they were very strong attackers, maybe the best... as well as having +50% tpa. It is a lot harder to do this age.


    As others have noted, a lot of this is situational. Some kingdoms will stop these ideas (so ask what they gave up to defend against this - somewhere they are weak), others will be completely blindsided. I usually advocate any leadership team make sure to communicate *why* and *how* the plan will defeat the enemy, so everyone can try to stay on mostly the same page as new things happen, and so everyone can try to do those little things that help it all work. (Steal from other attackers, or intel, or whatever it is.) It also opens the door for other plans to be put forward, or improvements pointed out, which will help everyone become a stronger player.
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  15. #15
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    khrono and noobium are talking probably for high level wars. But in the ghetto level where the OP is(I guess) there are a lot pure attackers who have more def specs than elites(and usually have around the same off/def) but don't have wpa/tpa and chaining them is pointless. FB/tornado/MS/chastity/NS is the best way to control them. Chaining someone who doesn't have off, wpa and tpa is a waste.

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