That sounds more like crappy turtles to me, not really an attacker.Originally Posted by Bo To
That sounds more like crappy turtles to me, not really an attacker.
#magi
I wasn't clear enough when I said pure attacker. I meant orcs/unds and last war I saw halfer/warr with more def than off but 2 tpa and 2 wpa.
You can be a t/m and be an Avian Cleric.... not smart but it can be done. You can be a halfling rogue with almost no thieves and huge offense; again not smart. Anyway I understood your point I was just pointing out that I do not consider turtles with no apparent and clear direction as real attackers;... let alone a "pure" one -- the concept, of which, I was never using as any bases for dismissal.
Last edited by khronosschoty; 09-10-2016 at 03:44.
#magi
The fun thing about ghettos is that even if they have offense, they don't have the ability to use it near as good as a decent kingdom. I wouldn't automatically go for the highest offense against ghetto kingdoms, so long as I have the offense and nw position to run a chain deep enough. It's easy enough to get the big offenses on a second or third wave, where their defense is likely 3x/4x-able still, rather than wait until i'm stuck 2xing some prov with too much defense (assuming i can't nm or ns efficiently enough).
The fun thing about ghettos is that semi chain works there. ; )
<----- Loves the lapping of the semi chain ocean.
You are who you are. :)
The most perplexing common characteristic in many ghettos is that so few engage t/ms. It's this or I keep joining kingdoms that ignore them. Strangely the enemy seldom ignores our t/ms. - I must define myself as a kingdom hopper or this casual survey would hold no weight.
Certainly there are no absolutes. My contention is that a t/m doing half his worth will stall attackers where all war training will be for naught. I'm use to this and simply endure the punishment as the enemy slowly secures unbreakables.
Again, no absolutes. Here's what recommend to newer kingdoms: engage t/ms to first learn what it takes and second to see if /when it's worth it. Once you start adding t/ms to your target array it sends a message to your kingdom what is expected. It doesn't even have to be a demand because its for their own survival.
love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
________
Weed bowls
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE
To be fair, often ghetto t/ms aren't worth dealing with, because they misuse their op and econ potential. Generally though I prefer taking down t/ms first, especially now that they're super breakable.
Ok as of now, it turns out nobody in the KD is good at coordinating T/Ms, I've passed monarchy to another vet and hopefully we have a better run from now on. Some days its just removing farms/multis again and again or getting dragged into war with a superior KD.
Spells and Thief ops wise, is there a general guide/combo to what ops are to be done in what situation or?
To give a gauge, I know that land lust is used when your prov is heavily chained and you need to retain as much land as possible before army returns; also blanketing greed/riots/blizzard; FB high peasant land fat attackers. But other than that I'm unsure on how to make use of mana/stealth more efficiently
For good invest of stealth/mana you need good t/ms. Again this is a lot situational.
The best use of mana/stealth would be if mystics/rogues use their special abilities.
Mystics cover ms/chastity(after min time if the war still goes on in most situations chastity is more valuable than ms) on high value targets rogues and hybrids. Stealing resources and NS-ing is what they should do with their stealth.
Rogues should use aw on mystics(check who doesn't have WTs and focus him) and anyone else who has a high wpa, is UB and doesn't have WTs. Prop should be used only if you have a dragon, have just recently killed one and need to restore some def or for chain preparation(for the last I prefer NS). They also should cover greeds/explo/gluttony/storms on attackers. FBs should be performed by small attackers with high wpa but if there are enough runes around rogues also can do it. Sometimes they cover riots - personally I dislike it.
Hybrids - mainly heretic and sage should do with their mana what rogues are doing and with their stealth what mystics are doing + covering riots.
Again this is basically situational - sometimes you might need to focus all the mana and stealth on one target.
If you're having trouble making use of t/ms, you might consider focusing your kingdom on attacking, and only run the bare minimum of mystics necessary for MS coverage (anywhere from one mystic to cover high-priority provinces to three to blanket cover MS + have backups in case one gets massed/AW).
Blizzard is not worth blanketing imo. The duration is way too short, and Blizzard does zero permanent damage. The best use of Blizzard is to prepare a target for thief runs, or prepare a target for a chain, if they possess defensive buildings.
Chastity is also a spell that is hard to blanket due to duration. I mostly want chastity when I'm focused-fireballing a target, or to prevent banks for repopulating. Fireball itself does more damage than chastity in normal circumstances, but chast works well to finish off an fb run.
Riots is only useful against targets that are generating significant gc, and you should be in nw range when rioting. Riots doesn't do actual troop/pezzie damage, and if you're spending too much stealth on riots you're not doing other ops (primarily NS for non-rogues). If a province is already drafted deep, riots is basically useless because there is no income to speak of.
Blanket greed really depends on whether a kingdom maintains 200% wages. Not all kingdoms will. Generally I find the benefit of greed to be less than the spells which I can spam on a single target (nm, fb, nado, LL), but greed is valuable for wagelocking a target.
Generally, when I chain a target, I want the following spells:
- Greed (no income + higher wage will bleed away gc stockpiles, and if it lasts long enough it requires a little more money to pay wages). This is the lowest priority
- Pitfalls, against a target with significant defense. If you can 3x hit a target per unique hit, this is unnecessary. This is medium-high priority, and really important when taking down t/m.
- Explosions, really important for preventing soldier and rune aid coming in and out of the target. Since soldier aid is a huge part of anti-chain tactics and soldier bouncing, this spell is essential if you want chains to inflict maximum damage. You should be using it on any heavy-attacker target you chain. A lot of kingdoms miss this.
- Blizzard, for weakening defensive buildings. This is fairly low priority and if target has no defensive buildings it's unnecessary.
- Nightmares, if target has significant defense specs, or if playing a core race with good turtle ability (Human, Dwarf) to run defense as low as possible. This one is the best spam spell to use before a chain.
- Landlust, to run a chain target to lower acres. If you don't have any NM or can't pull off the timing, this is a good spam spell, though the damage is highly random. The good thing about LL is that it puts acres where you want them, on t/ms and on chained provs. It does however lower the target's nw considerably (but depending on the target, this can actually be a good thing). LL is damn near essential for bringing down excessively bloated targets in any decent timeframe. If your chained provinces need acres, LLing the next chain target is a good way to do some significant damage in the process.
Best uses of stealth: For Rogues, AW or Propaganda are the big damage ops. If you have a lot of thieves (Rogue or not) lined up against a target, Greater Arson Watchtowers is a force multiplier worth the stealth. The unique ops are a lot more damaging than anything else in most situations, but they are used against other defensive provinces. If you cannot op strong thief defenses outright, you'll have to direct Rogues towards softer targets. For non-rogues, nightstrike spam is the best way to cripple provinces, and Heretics are the best provs for covering Riots. Note that nightstrikes DO damage offense and target armies out. It takes a lot of NS to really impact offense, but with focused NS you can cut a target's raw off by 25% with a few NS runs.
The theft operations are really strong in war, but you usually don't need to steal runes and other stockpiles are small. (If you are short of runes though, rune theft is quite powerful and prevents an inactive mage from unloading on you.) Your ordinary attackers should get in the habit of stealing food stockpiles and petty stealing runes/gold, since they sacrifice very few thieves. Core attackers are also capable of nightstriking soldier stockpiles, since the thieves required are quite small.
^^^Noobium, Bo To great advise TQ
Cant beat props or NM.
If ppl are hitting off target its because you dont change target enough.
12 hours is enough in GhettoFightClub
Once a prov is 500 acres move to the next
Enemy NEWS will show consistant 100 acres, 88 acres
25 acres scares NOBODY except the chained prov
I am Stewie now in my lil ghetto as I am training a new Monarch.
We have 2 others I have trained.
We are 2/4 as I WD after 8 days if I see no way to force victory.
Both our WD were 10 day wars
We dont lose so much as we dont win.
When our wars are over, we either won or BOTH KD are wrecked.
Most Monarchs dont use the FORT proper either.
You need 12 hours after eowcf to paradise/xplr and then 2/3 days for fort.
It takes a long time to birth 9000 peasants, draft 7000 sldrs, and then train 4000 elites/thfs
Your TMs will cry as ther Scitist do not advance, but tell them to STFU as your chained provs need this.
All TMs are selfish big DP pricks!
Last edited by kendy; 11-10-2016 at 18:47.
Don't forget to search other leaders input in other threads. The reason I'm going to tell you "Palem" again is because I noticed you said you're removing farms/multis. This is a waste of time and resources. You must look around and assess where you are as a kingdom. I realize you've surrendered monarchy but just be prepared for your next go.
One thing I do know about is facing superior KDs. You can't make your players learn but facing strong competition begins with mindset. That's fufu for embracing the challenge. Let me put it this way; you are accumulating inactives/farms/multis so you haven't the ability to recruit your way out. You make your stand here.
So besides mindset, what else? Mechanically, you start with your choice of race and personality. Your choices should be based in being able to strike outside your nw range. This type of building has to do first with racial unstoppable capability like elves magic bonus, avian speed, orc damage. You must be dangerous in defensive and offensive relations.
My choice this age, just for experiments, is undead sage. Now I don't feel clever; all I did was choose it to look at the new science mechanics and have a race that was functional if the personality was garbage. Now it's a matter of what you do with it. So the trick is, if I played this combination out like I could I would be stepping on a lot of necks. As you know I only retal, but if I aggressively pursued abduction I could bolster my advantage even further.
Amnesia is reportedly bad but I'm finding the reaction to it effective. You need to feel these things out and so I did. Basically I figured out if I keep dropping amnesia on my hapless victims they tend to retreat. Tick after tick, I keep casting amnesia. Who has time for that? Whoops...me. I build enough towers to keep things fluid. Now add to this the undead offense and the ability to abduct and resist abduction. Your elves would have fools gold, lightning strike. You'll want to defend them. Don't worry about being unbreakable, think about being capable of casting, thieving and marching. Use them like a shell game.
Orcs and avians can work in tandem. You don't have to organize this because it'll happen naturally. Your orcs break stuff and makes defenses easier for the avians to hit. You don't have to chain, just get enemies out of nw max. Orcs offense make them efficient for crapping on enemies when the meter is paramount.
Don't fund dragons and don't slay. That's all for kingdoms that have some continuity. You learn to tank and aid each other. You work on team and forget about fancy bots and com systems. Don't dump good players who don't use these false discipline tools.
Retal for your t/ms and live by it. If your t/ms stink then your best players should be running t/ms. If the stinky t/ms refuse to switch, fine. Just know that you can suicide retal as a faery. The enemy will jump on you giving you relations and then you can bombard them.
love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
________
Weed bowls
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE
Amnesia from reports is pretty powerful (especially against professors), but Sage is a ****-tier personality this age due to how science accumulates and how weak abducts are.
I disagree with Strato on dragons... funding drakes is super important to learn if you want to war well, and if a kingdom can't stock loads of gc they're going to have to fight an econ war to launch dragons late in war. If in doubt, use Ruby dragons. You shouldn't fund (or at least not send) dragons that are going to be slain safely by UB provinces, unless you have enough money to send b2b drakes. Sapphire tends to be more useful in top-level wars, but in ghettoville Ruby is straightforward, and if you send it before a major wave you get lots of benefit in the window before its slain, and Ruby tends to be the most pro-gain drake if enemy tanks it.
I disagree with noobium and strato about the drakes(lol). At this point of the age drakes are extremely expensive but not so hard to kill. So my advise would be don't fund dragon(but start one just to 'scare' the enemy) - use the gold to train but kill it if you receive one. Funding dragon with income imo is wrong. Keeping defense, some tpa and the entire land build on chained attackers is much better.
Noobium made a point about attackers stealth - personally I prefer attackers to refresh intel - sot(every 5-6 hours) and surveys(min. once a day on high priority targets) instead of doing sabotage ops. Don't think this is easy - attackers need their stealth also for soms so sots and surveys(some times infiltrate), especially on t/ms, are hard to get.
Last edited by Bo To; 12-10-2016 at 05:42.
Ok understood.
Also one more thing that's been bugging me.
I never built any stables this age and I have 2 horses. They never seem to die in attacks and they are always there. I have 0 stables
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote