It's a known bug/feature. The reason why is because horses decay at 1/3 of total stock if you lack capacity, so once you have 2 horses the horse loss rounds down.Originally Posted by Ardelus
It's a known bug/feature. The reason why is because horses decay at 1/3 of total stock if you lack capacity, so once you have 2 horses the horse loss rounds down.
Relating to dragons, you can calculate cost to kill by making a few assumptions about how much those points of offense take to make. You can then can compare between the cost to fund and the cost to kill.
What you'll find, if I remember correctly, is that is takes something on the order of 20% more to kill than to fund. Which means two things... if everyone is maxed out, sending is more important than training. (Except in funny cases like someone trying to go UB, or a slow semi-chain that leaves time to train defense to slow it even more.)
But more importantly... it only takes around 20% of the total slaying power to come from "free" places, like UB T/Ms that now have more defense than necessary due to the falling offense. Or, even bigger - that attacker that got chained hard enough to be releasing offense - send it against the dragon instead! Or even just a high offense attacker that can 4x or 5x all the targets in range already, who can throw the extra at the dragon.
That is why noobium and other note the importance of B2B sending - even if they can kill the first one well, the second one is a huge problem to get rid of, and should open targets or force them to spend offense. Later in a war when there aren't spare troops around, a single dragon can cause much the same problem - but again, watch out that the UBs can't do most of it with otherwise useless defense.
it's vs. its is ambiguous - from now on I'm attempting to use the proper possessive it's, and the contraction 'tis. (Its will just be the plural.)
Think Different
The first dragon could be funded with money stocked during normal. The second one however will be funded with income and more specific - income of 20-30-40% of the provs in the KD(t/ms and hybrids who can protect their peasants). Currently funding with income is extremely hard and takes 3+ days min. At this point attackers already need to train def/tpa, t/ms also need to retrain some tpa.
I play in low level wars and I don't see more than one dragon/war and it's not ours - we fund the dragon only with gold we steal from the enemy that we can't spend(we are removing gold from the game using stealth instead of runes+mana). But our main focus is on the runes control because we war KDs with 3+ elf/heretics. Even in 8 days war there was only one dragon.
What you said and what others have said applies for dragons 2-3 ages ago before the increase of troops NW.
Except dragon HP is proportional to nw, and leet nw went up with the unit rejig (actually a little more than proportional, for most races). Drake HP is also higher since the change to dragon strength, for most dragons (specifically Ruby, which is the preferred dragon for low-tier warring).
The cost is also proportionally higher. I thought with the increase in land NW the things will get better but they didn't. What I see is extremely expensive dragons but not increased income to actually fund them(I don't count that sci doesn't need gold anymore).
Sapphire is actually a lot cheaper.
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@op
there is no real universal answer to how to use your stealth/mana effectivly. Any preset mo you choose and use as standard approach is bound to be at the very least suboptimal.
Best advice I can offer is to focus your ops and allways work toward a certain goal that fits into larger picture.
This can be any number of things, pulling your rogue to ub status, shelling certain provinces you have no intentions of hitting, lowering troop cout on certain enemy provs, prepping ll farms, denying MS capability ... anything rly.
Understanding what exactly you can acomplish with ops and how to sync it with your war plan is what separates good strategist from a bad one. This only comes from experience.
True there, citadela01.
Being practical will serve at any level.
@ all. We're talking about ghettos so let's not get off track thinking this is an organized kingdom critique.
The reality of the dragon in Utopia is that it is a communal challenge, either to fund or destroy. What really happens is the early sacrifices in troops render punctual players to chain fighting.
Rewind to practical. A lot of guys have egos but if you're genuinely trying to win as a kingdom, in the context of being an individual, you must be pragmatic. Don't send your troops early unless there is a consensus to get it done. Raise your hand if you've sent troops to the dragon only to watch your kingdom take so long that slaying it only invites the next fully funded enemy dragon. If this is you, don't do that. You're more valuable retaining your power.
But where does this come from? This is herd mentality. To understand the cost benefits analysis of straying from the herd or staying with the herd in ghettoland is important. It's important if you want to win. There's a thin line that follows self preservation and greed. You'll have to find this line. Self preservation has a PC interpretation as greed, but this isn't true.
In the ghetto you use your instincts for self preservation to better the herd through aid and correct enemy engagement. Your genesis core will be survivors and the victims(chained/wrecked vs chained/cool) will be your students.
- I should mention that the dragon slaying formula is a great solution. It has worked well in most kingdoms I've occupied. -
love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
________
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Prior to the "great troop/nw inflation", a dragon's cost to send was low enough that there was a small benefit to sending even in hostile. Which was at only 75% HP, and therefore at full hp it's ratio had to be above 133% (that's 4/3). I think it was nearly 140% cost to slay vs. cost to fund.
This is how I arrived at my 120% estimate (things like orc free draft come into play too) - it is weaker now, but I'm fairly sure it is still a positive ratio.
As noted, just having a positive static ratio doesn't actually make it good in a real war. It mostly just means it isn't nearly always bad, as it would if the ratio were <100%. If someone wants to go math crazy in another thread, I bet we can show the dragon cost per kingdom NW ought to be lowered as small amount because the ratio is too close to 100% as it is - hence all the ways a dragon can be a suboptimal plan.
it's vs. its is ambiguous - from now on I'm attempting to use the proper possessive it's, and the contraction 'tis. (Its will just be the plural.)
Think Different
If I were completely new to monarchy/war planning, I would get on irc and ask known leaders (Persain? Zauper? etc) for advice when war is near. There are some genuinely nice guys out there who won’t mind helping out when they have time. Let them eyeball your kd pages, or whatever data they ask for, and make suggestions for a couple of lower level strats. Try them out and see what works for you. Build up your repertoire this way and make your goals long term. Hold on to the players who’s interested in developing the kd and you’ll make progress.
Math has been semi done in some kds. What it boils down to is unless you have a ton of gc spare pre war it'll probably be better to just spending gc on your provs now since the initial costs are so massive. If you cut hp and cost by 2 there might be a differnt argument.
Specific advise for each war from known leaders are helpful, and friendly leaders can wargame out some things for "new" leaders, but the vast majority it will be "Activity". Its hard for any leader to help out when they have no idea the capability of the kd they give suggestions too. The best advise any extra leader can give you are "these are your threats" and it'll boil down to either
1.your kd isnt step to deal with that many t/m's
2.they will likely outhit you so hard/fast you'll get overwhelmed
Activity then determines if your capable of overcoming that issue. Once u get beyond that.....well im still not beyond that :P
We got into another war for now, with another guy as the monarch. Lucky for us the opponent isn't active and by contrast we are doing well. But still it takes a full 24 hours just to chain down 1 guy. I'm getting quite disheartened with the KD lol
Organizing KD takes few ages especially if you are getting new players.
There are many reasons about why you can't chain someone down. If the reason for that is the organization in your KD better try with semi chains.
if u cant chain 1 guy in 1 wave dont chain. have everyone max gain and hope that you do more damage via t/m ops. u'll find its better to just gain land/gain economy then to take forever to not do real damage. Chains only work if you are pushing someone into desertions and at 24 hours/chain i bet most of the military lost is via troop deaths via hitting.
My piece of advice is to never spread out your ops and do a general, blanket order like "NS all attackers!" The reason is that if the damage is diffused, it'll be meaningless. It's harder for a province to get 1000 peasants than it is for 10 provinces to get 100 peasants each.
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