FS vs. QoA

[Elixir]

Please give some summaries and update of their war..

[MyNameIsMatija]

I've warred Ascension as a FS member once already, FS won even though QoA had honor advantage I believe.

Would be interesting to hear how things panned out this time.

[noobium]

clear fake war.

[StratOcastle]

Have fun guys.

Interesting to see the t/m distributions. Each side with a big balloon at the top of land.

[Raikon]

Who are these ghettos?

[StratOcastle]

No offense meant here, but I'm so use to seeing Freakstyle faeries bunched up together I'm wondering if anyone has tried to pull one down. I know there's a gazillion, but there is a relationship between enemy t/m health and your attackers traction.

This isn't a condemnation of QoA, as I've seen this over many times. The good thing is QoA t/ms look solid from here. Keep up the good work.

[Persain]

From the way i see it FS has it won, both kds have about the same nw but QoA has what 900k nw thats just land? Probably just a matter of time. Still Gota give it up to QoA, they were down 40k acres on FS, land droped FS (boosting fs wpa, diluting their own) and only had a week to prepare. Even if they had 3 weeks at equal size to prep FS aint easy. FS just knows how to play and is amazing at leveraging their setup.

No offense meant here, but I'm so use to seeing Freakstyle faeries bunched up together I'm wondering if anyone has tried to pull one down. I know there's a gazillion, but there is a relationship between enemy t/m health and your attackers traction.

This isn't a condemnation of QoA, as I've seen this over many times. The good thing is QoA t/ms look solid from here. Keep up the good work.

people have, they normally get 2-3 but end up losing 3-4 of their own t/ms since fs has a nice attacker spread and ops you hard (feary+damage). Even if a kd traded 1-1 t/m for t/m since FS has more they end up with 3-4 that survive compared to 0 of the enemy. Those 3-4 massively grow w/out the threat of ops since no more t/m's exist. Next step is to funnel aid back into chained t/m's on days 8-10+ of war and slowly regain unbrekable t/m's 1 at a time.

The only way to approach that setup without massive honor/size advantages (and i think green? did it 105% with 23? attackers so each attacker i extra big and pumped") is to overwhelm the faeries with lots of "big" attackers (not a shell, just "big") and conquest the t/m's down 1 at a time after removing all the attackers. Theory is if i have 18 attackers all only single tap-able to your attacker core i get good overall econ, decent ops safety and can conquest your t/m's down faster than you can chain my attackers.

[Zauper]

Right, realistically, FS' setup wins a lot because it's really good at establishing more/better safe t/ms than the other kd, which can then safely add land, and feed others to the same status. Against a 'normal' kd of say 18 hitters and 7 t/ms, running 10 t/ms doesn't really hurt your ability to chain significantly, but helps in letting you make them safe.

The best way to beat it are:
1) To do the same thing, better (e.g. more t/ms, or a strong t/m spread)
2) Run 23-25 hitters and take them down without running into offense fatigue -- if you only have 5 provs that can break, that's not enough. So really, to pull this off, you need a significant land advantage as well.
3) To more efficiently use pool e.g. instead of running a bunch of big t/ms, run a few cows that are 3x the size of their t/ms and can massacre with impunity. This is why top kd wars are different from war kd wars, the added element of cows that are largely safe from t/m containment and attacks, while being able to hit down. A 15k dwarf that was safe from ops would probably be able to 2-3x massacre each wave without having their offense removed, and that would let them take out the t/m threat over time.

FS is very effective at playing a very effective strategy.

[StratOcastle]

Yes, I was fairly observant when I saw them in war. The strat is great, but they also adjust things as a norm. I like this because it eschews tired war doctrine and exploits openings as they present themselves. If kingdoms with crappy strats but decent activity copied this stuff it'd go a long way toward better warring.

There's a few out there, don't get me wrong. Even in the deep ghetto I run into abbreviated brilliance: I can see where things would go if they had complete subsets in other categories.

If I ever got The Virtual Kingdom up and running I'd seek Freeakstyle for war/conflict. Even experienced players overlook details that a polished kingdom brings to the game. War for experience? That's what I do.

[2Utopian]

If kingdoms with crappy strats but decent activity copied this stuff it'd go a long way toward better warring.

Dead wrong. Played poorly this strategy falls apart and fails miserably. It requires skilled players in TM roles (nothing is worse then bad thief mage provinces) and attacker roles (playing a bit short handed in this department due to higher TM count) along with solid kingdom level coordination.

[StratOcastle]

I don't think so. Most kingdoms follow a hollow strat and hardly adapt. Skill is developed so you have to start somewhere.

Let me tell you what I did when I started seriously. I chose the avian tactician because my experience in other games taught me 2 things:

1- have something to hang your hat on.
2- repetition hones skill.

You want to develop quickly? People say join a good kingdom. I decided to join bad kingdoms, pardon my French. In freedom I've seen what many others don't. You know how many kingdoms Freeakstyle has defeated? So many I realize the culture is incorrect. The prevailing war meta is wrong. - Obeying orders I watched victory slip away. This is experience, the ghost notes. Let things play through to see the entire movement.

Back to avian tac. You accelerate your experience in the wiggly world of combat. You see builds change faster, what being fat does and how getting attention makes the enemy react. One of the first things learned was chain stalling. You see numerical changes quickly and the idea of dictating pace.

Back to culture. How many of these kingdoms bend knee to logistically superior kingdoms? How do you learn when your entire Utopian career is exercising logistical behavior? You learn to update your intel and follow the strat. You learn that chatting with someone on the latest fufu app somehow equates to better strategy.

Now. What happens when you push against the war meta? You get a violent top heavy reaction. People always tell me if I do this they'll do that. Do you know why I did this? Like suiciding with a faery cleric? Top kingdom says yes. I'm not playing a t/m, I'm playing a shell game.

Don't misinterpret me as thinking I'm smarter. I'm not. I'm free and I do what want in Utopia. I'm not afraid to get torn to pieces because I'm studying the form. Learning that to push your opponent is to force them to show you their best.

I already said Freeakstyle is great.

[Zauper]

You want to develop quickly? People say join a good kingdom. I decided to join bad kingdoms, pardon my French. In freedom I've seen what many others don't. You know how many kingdoms Freeakstyle has defeated? So many I realize the culture is incorrect. The prevailing war meta is wrong. - Obeying orders I watched victory slip away. This is experience, the ghost notes. Let things play through to see the entire movement.

Back to avian tac. You accelerate your experience in the wiggly world of combat. You see builds change faster, what being fat does and how getting attention makes the enemy react. One of the first things learned was chain stalling. You see numerical changes quickly and the idea of dictating pace.

Back to culture. How many of these kingdoms bend knee to logistically superior kingdoms? How do you learn when your entire Utopian career is exercising logistical behavior? You learn to update your intel and follow the strat. You learn that chatting with someone on the latest fufu app somehow equates to better strategy.

Now. What happens when you push against the war meta? You get a violent top heavy reaction. People always tell me if I do this they'll do that. Do you know why I did this? Like suiciding with a faery cleric? Top kingdom says yes. I'm not playing a t/m, I'm playing a shell game.

Don't misinterpret me as thinking I'm smarter. I'm not. I'm free and I do what want in Utopia. I'm not afraid to get torn to pieces because I'm studying the form. Learning that to push your opponent is to force them to show you their best.

I already said Freeakstyle is great.

Just real fast -- when you join a good kd, you get out what you put in. If what you put in is chat and just following orders, yeah, you don't get anything out of it. If you spend time talking to LS and asking questions about why they're doing x instead of y, you'll get more out of it than you are likely to fumbling your way around in a worse kd.

[khronosschoty]

Just real fast -- when you join a good kd, you get out what you put in. If what you put in is chat and just following orders, yeah, you don't get anything out of it. If you spend time talking to LS and asking questions about why they're doing x instead of y, you'll get more out of it than you are likely to fumbling your way around in a worse kd.

A good kingdom will allow anyone into leadership, that is able to put the kingdom first, and who can / is willing to put in the necessary time and effort.

[MyNameIsMatija]

These good KDs you speak of... Where do I find one?

[Persain]

Dead wrong. Played poorly this strategy falls apart and fails miserably. It requires skilled players in TM roles (nothing is worse then bad thief mage provinces) and attacker roles (playing a bit short handed in this department due to higher TM count) along with solid kingdom level coordination.

Its a very easy setup that doesnt require skill once you have it working & going. Like right now in war, all freakstyle has to do is blindly cast FB, NS, prop, MS and add as many acres as leadership tells them to do. Their t/m's dont even need great activity just loging in every 4-5 hours when awake and geting a good nights sleep. A monkey could almost run their t/m's. Similarly their attackers are almost all hollowed out as long as they run army-in-army-out and follow leadership target advise to keep decent incoming theres no "skill" left.

However, what requires ALOT of skill is province management pre war, correct builds, early war adjustments/targeting. A single feary mystic on say 0 WT could get crushed, or a rogue on .5 wpa gets ET'ed to hell. An attacker geting chained army in and falling apart, any of those things can make their setup incredibly vulnerable as they end up costing them the war. Worse kds couldn't pull that off at all and would lose to "worse" setups due to early miss plays.

Now @ StratOCastle

People say join a good kingdom. I decided to join bad kingdoms................

Back to culture. How many of these kingdoms bend knee to logistically superior kingdoms? How do you learn when your entire Utopian career is exercising logistical behavior? You learn to update your intel and follow the strat. You learn that chatting with someone on the latest fufu app somehow equates to better strategy.

Now. What happens when you push against the war meta? You get a violent top heavy reaction. People always tell me if I do this they'll do that. Do you know why I did this? Like suiciding with a faery cleric? Top kingdom says yes. I'm not playing a t/m, I'm playing a shell game.

players in good kds follow logistical behavior because good kds run setups that require all players to fit in like a cog in a machine. Things like chain stalling can be done via sold aid or not at all as geting chained is often important to a setup or less impactfull than the resources that must be spent to keep a prov afloat. Things like spread out attack times can be devastatingly damaging because they dont actually stall chains. i.e. my current war an attacker split their ambush armies and their attack armies by 3 hours, in that 3 hours we chained away all their ambush leets.

Counter meta in a game like utopia is insanely damaging if the whole kd isn't trying that differnt strategy. Your issue is exactly what you claim to be a strengths you've played in crappy kds. You dont see the cog working, u see bad leaders trying to mimic kd wide strategies that simply doesnt work. Thing is stronger setups are stronger because they work as designed. Case in point FS does so well because they know how to play thier setup and win. If you brought your strategy over to their kd and tried to push it in, your prov would either be crushed and completely worthless or ignored but counter enough to the strategy they require that u'd HURT them, and if they lose because of it u'd be unabble to see it as your fault.

edit....a perfect example of geting chained beign worthwhile is i got chained to 135 acres this past war, and still managed to keep 16000 leets when army in because of good planing. Post chain my prov was able to take land from a 1800 acre feary t/m because we planed out enemy low def attackers. Four 5k def hits+1 160k def hit into a feary over and over starts to add up damage. If you ran your strategy and simply never got chained down so small you'd have armies split out over time at 30-40k per army and never able to help bring down the feary (something that helped us win).