[Discussion] Does EOWCF need a buff?

[drkzeraga]

For context, Eowcf used to last for 4 days. A few ages ago it was reduced to 3 days with no corresponding buff to its effect. This mean that kingdoms coming out from war have effectively 25% less time to recover themselves.

Now I have heard rumors that this change was partially because of wanting to remove downtime from the game, which I think is a great idea. However as it stands now the change is counter-productive as it actually forces kingdoms to go into fort even after Eowcf, which actually increase the downtime from 4 days to 6.

Now I do have some ideas/suggestions on how we can go about fixing this problem, but I would like to hear what the community actually thinks about the issue before jumping the gun so to speak.

[Bo To]

Fort doesn't need a buff but the eowcf. Fort usually is used to hide from a KD you don't want to have conflict with or to recover after unwanted conflict and 3 days should be enough for this. The only thing I would touch about fort is slicing in the -50% gains penalty.

About eowcf - just buff it(this is only about the duration). Duration to 2 days + 2 hours for each 3 hours war after the min time, max 5 days. Few examples:
A KD surrenders after 48h - both KDs have 2 days eowcf.
A KD surrenders after 50h war - both KDs have 2 days eowcf.
A KD surrenders after 72h war - both KDs have 64h eowcf.
A KD surrenders after 168h war - both KDs have 120h eowcf.

In most cases you need more than 3 days eowcf only after a long war(4+ days). After a min time war usually you don't need fort.

The max duration should be shown on the war tab in politics.

[jmiedema]

the 3 days can be difficult for kingdoms to bring in mills, explore back up their deep chained provs, and pump in time to be in OK shape IF a kingdom jumps you after eowcf. I'll give you that.

The typical and familiar route of EowCF --> full fort duration is definitely long enough to get in shape though.

EoWCF time was reduced 25%, sure. But old EoWCF people were spending at least 25% of their gc investing into science. Now that science is gained for free. So the gc required to get ready really hasn't changed much. IMO it is actually easier to prepare for all provinces EXCEPT those that are deeply chained. It also makes it more difficult to recover WPA, but 1 day doesnt do much there.

I think it should remain 3 days, but make construction and raze costs free for the first 24h of EoWCF, and maybe increase Guild effect slightly in eowcf (not as drastic as it was a couple ages ago, but maybe like 50% increased wizard production), or maybe specialist credits can be used to train wizards in eowcf or something to help recover. 2 credits train 1 wizard.

[octobrev]

Remove eowcf from the game! Kingdoms are getting too accustomed to having down time and it's making them lazy.

[Bo To]

IMO it is actually easier to prepare for all provinces EXCEPT those that are deeply chained. It also makes it more difficult to recover WPA, but 1 day doesnt do much there.

That actually depends on how many chained provs the KD has. If a KD has 1-2-3 chained provs(min time war) it's easy to pump them up without needing mills. If a KD has 5-6+ chained provs(5+ days of war) it's much harder.

Remove eowcf from the game! Kingdoms are getting too accustomed to having down time and it's making them lazy.

So after a war we have 2 KDs who are basically free land/honor/scientists - things nobody needs. This will encourage more wars(sarcasm).

EDIT: I think eowcf needs a rework not a buff.

[jmiedema]

In the list of things this game needs, on terms of development hours available to it every age... I'm not sure major overhauls to EoWCF is really needed. It works very well as it is. Maybe some minor adjustments using formulas and methods already in the development archives so they can be easily implemented.

I don't think anyone that looks at this age can actually say.. you know what.. eowcf was the big problem this age.

[Goodwitch]

once the cool down issue for the stances is fixed eowcf should be fine as is. We used to do it in 48 without all the buffs we get now and it didn't stop anyone from warring.
The only thing that stops warring kingdoms that want to war from doing so are player fatigue and time constraints. Nothing in the game can make those go away.

[Bo To]

I don't think anyone that looks at this age can actually say.. you know what.. eowcf was the big problem this age.

You can say the same thing for science for the last 10-15-20 ages but it was completely reworked :).

We used to do it in 48 without all the buffs we get now and it didn't stop anyone from warring.

If I'm correct you used to have alliances back then which was your protection.

[Palem]

However as it stands now the change is counter-productive as it actually forces kingdoms to go into fort even after Eowcf, which actually increase the downtime from 4 days to 6.

This isn't correct. Kingdoms would almost always jump from EOWCF to Fort and would essentially have a week off from playing the game.

The other thing wrong with your assessment is that you think you think you need to be in tip top shape to exit war protection. You don't. You need to be in reasonable shape to defend yourself, which you can get to with 3 days of EOWCF.

[handofthrawn]

The meta of the game is not to war. War is just a stance and people don't understand that. Hence the confusion between the elite and the warring tier. It's like having a game within a game, but that can't happen without complaint.

[StratOcastle]

The meta of the game is not to war. War is just a stance and people don't understand that. Hence the confusion between the elite and the warring tier. It's like having a game within a game, but that can't happen without complaint.

Oh, I agree. I don't even chase meta.

Casual kingdoms can appropriately approach the game as war scenario to war scenario. It's when big war kingdoms chase meta and oddly play scenario to scenario.

The kingdom I'm in is pretty dress down. We get out of eowcf and ~they~ come from all directions. It's like "Jeez guys, just chill a minute". It's where I'm finding good use for amnesia.

When I soloed I obviously had zero wars. The game was plenty exciting.

@ OP, While I might not think eowcf needs a buff I'm all about improving the experience. Just keep the ideas going. - I just adapt. Let's say your ideas were heard and the devs changed eowcf; I simply try to play the cards dealt. So I don't mind it changing, if that made others happy.

[starz]

we always try to adapt whatever the dev give to us. but +50% wizard production will be great buff.

[Goodwitch]

You can say the same thing for science for the last 10-15-20 ages but it was completely reworked :).



If I'm correct you used to have alliances back then which was your protection.

you are not correct. Sure, there used to be alliances out there. But not every kingdom was part of an alliance and an alliance really can't give you after war protection.

[JusticeLeague]

I think so far only dwarf can be ready in 3 days in a kingdom that lose the war.
Ready in the sense for another war. Largely attributed by the free switch of builds and short building time.

[drkzeraga]

This isn't correct. Kingdoms would almost always jump from EOWCF to Fort and would essentially have a week off from playing the game.

So wouldn't it be better if we buff Eowcf so that Kingdom wouldn't need to go from Eowcf into fort? This will reduce the downtime from a week to only 3 days and promote more activity.

I think so far only dwarf can be ready in 3 days in a kingdom that lose the war.
Ready in the sense for another war. Largely attributed by the free switch of builds and short building time.

Exactly. I think at the very least Eowcf should have the same bonus as fort (40% faster/cheaper building/training)

It currently cost too much and take too long to convert from war build to pump build that 3 days is simply not enough to gather the gold, draft the soldier and get your troops trained.

Not to mention having to wait for your pezzies to recover so your income can get going and having to wait for plague/chastity to be removed so your pezzies can get going.