Large KD Raze/PK'ing me for plundering their inactive once

[jmiedema]

Im not confused at all at their process. They are in the tier of "we plundered them 4 times, so they should plunder us 4 times max in equal retaliation.

No. The bigger kingdom has the power and means to make a much more substantial strike. The bigger kingdom is also likely making at least 5 times the resources of the smaller kingdom, so 1 plunder for 1 plunder would yield better results for the smaller kingdom. Don't you think being raze killed as retaliation sends a much more clear answer to the smaller kingdom to show them what is accepted and what is not accepted in this game? Maybe raze killing went a bit far, but the bigger kingdom probably didnt have enough provinces in NW range to do much damage outside of razes.

This is a war/strategy game. If you attack a kingdom 5x bigger than you, you have to deal with any and all consequences there are to that. You can't take the moral high ground if you are a smaller kingdom that hits first, and not once, but 4 times, giving relations.

Strato, sometimes the harsh truth is what is needed. Thou shalt not attack thy brother, especially if thine brother is larger than thou, or thy brother shall striketh thee in thine face and make thee pay.

[Chanain]

I'm surprised by the cultural response here, that big Kingdoms CAN raze-kill, therefore just don't hit them unless you want to be raze-killed.

There was a time when that kind of heavy-handed response drew the ire of large portions of the Utopian community. In fact, that's not so different from what set off the Island wars of the first age - that the #1 Kingdom had a "policy" of PKing anyone who hit them more than once (and of something like 3-1 retals for a single hit, even if it was a retaliatory hit in the first place). By the time the dust settled, suffice it to say that they were no longer the #1 Kingdom.

[jmiedema]

it is looked at differently if the bigger kingdom is the aggressor. As soon as the smaller kingdom was the aggressor, and hit enough to give relations, the bigger kingdom is in a conflict and must do whatever they can to resolve that conflict. If they cf, it sets a precedent that a smaller kingdom can just hit up against much larger kingdoms and get free easy cf (and resources) out of it. If they retaliate hit for hit they give the smaller kingdom relations, in which the smaller kingdom can FG all their gc for instance. The only option I feel that kingdom had was to send a message through a full scale retaliation. maybe a full raze kill was a bit excessive.. I would have just razed their monarch and steward to 100 acres to show them to keep their kingdom in line and hitting viable, same sized kingdoms.

If you don't want the mindset, and retaliations that the "top" does, then don't hit the top.... The top takes this game seriously, and you taking like 80% of the resources of one of their provinces could severely set back their next conflict. Sure they could probably pool resources to that province, but that would destroy the Trade Balance on that province making it hard to aid them in war if they get chained.

I'm sure if you guys just did 1 plunder on that province they probably would have just found a cf option and reprimanded their province for having so much unprotected resources. But the smaller kingdom in this scenario went overkill on their plunders. That is the difference.

[Palem]

And people are wondering why ghettos are so quick to play the "raze into wars" card these days.

[Korp]

Give the amount of bashing FS is putting on this kid I assume it was FS who couldnt protect their provinces from getting plundered by a ghetto?

[jmiedema]

Its between Bunch of..... and.. well just look at kingdom pages for Galaxy, he is clearly not in FS. New report was posted in page one of this thread..

[MyNameIsMatija]

Wrong Korp, I'm not allowed to talk about the KD that this particular province belongs to.

[Korp]

Its between Bunch of..... and.. well just look at kingdom pages for Galaxy, he is clearly not in FS. New report was posted in page one of this thread..

I just find it funny its just basically FS people bashing him. :)

[jmiedema]

I just find it funny its just basically FS people bashing him. :)

We're just bored riding out the rest of the age, and gotta find something to do :P

Now honestly I like "Bunch of" kd. But they have been around the block long enough to know they shouldn't have hit into that kingdom at such a size disadvantage. I'm thinking it was a rogue prov or two that didn't quite know what they were doing, but still the monarch/steward should have set rules to not hit kingdoms that can destroy you. That is like.. the #1 rule for randoming out. It's a bit extreme, sure... but definitely something major was likely to happen.. they must of known that going in.. Attacking into a kingdom with no real ambitions for the rest of the age.. that is just asking to get raze killed for the fun of it..

[Korp]

We're just bored riding out the rest of the age, and gotta find something to do :P

Now honestly I like "Bunch of" kd. But they have been around the block long enough to know they shouldn't have hit into that kingdom at such a size disadvantage. I'm thinking it was a rogue prov or two that didn't quite know what they were doing, but still the monarch/steward should have set rules to not hit kingdoms that can destroy you. That is like.. the #1 rule for randoming out. It's a bit extreme, sure... but definitely something major was likely to happen.. they must of known that going in.. Attacking into a kingdom with no real ambitions for the rest of the age.. that is just asking to get raze killed for the fun of it..

And the kingdom that got plundered shouldnt have learned how to protect their assets betters? Its all the ghettos fault for daring to hit a "top kd"? :) This is the attitude that is sickening.

[jmiedema]

I've said several times that it is not purely the fault of bunch of suckers. I have said that the bigger kingdom could have / should have protected their assets better, and probably got reprimanded by their leadership. BUT for the smaller kingdom to be the aggressor and expect that they wont be retaliated against, possibly severely is an oversight on them too. My personal rule is to never random into a kingdom that I feel my kingdom wouldn't be able to beat in a conflict if it escalated to it. Both kingdoms have areas of fault here as it pertains to "how could they have handled this better".

In the end. Bunch of made it a legitimate conflict by hitting them into Unfriendly. They gave relations to a substantially bigger kingdom when they hadn't been hit into beforehand. The repercussions of that are completely on them.

Should those repercussions be Raze Kills on the provinces that did the plunders.. maybe extreme, but not out of the realm of understandable and allowable.

[kendy]

In the end. Bunch of made it a legitimate conflict by hitting them into Unfriendly. They gave relations to a substantially bigger kingdom..

Bigger KD showed mercy by PK. If they had left you at 147 acres that would have been more cruel. Why the hell would you plunder a KD 5x your size. Should the bigger KD have stopped after 10 hits? YES. Too bad they did not, but its in the game. Restart and remember a valuable lesson. As you were killed, schools out now.

[Bart of Sparta]

People shouldn't whine. They take a risk by stealing from provinces in bigger KDs. Mostly they get away, but when they the cost is high. Bigger kingdoms don't protect their gc with tpa or WTs, but simply because of what they are and how big they are. This isn't a prov v prov game, it's a KD based around KDs.

[aak12345]

I don't think PK'ing near EoA is mercy as all that science/wpa goes away. Essentially a 500k plunder (we were in fortified, so the gains were nominal) on someone who is still inactive was responded with a raze/kill only because they can, "for fun", AND because they have no age objectives in terms of war wins or rankings. That is the bottom line. The intention matters too. Of course the plunders were a mistake. I did not expect my KD to make 4 plunder attacks on someone. I had already sent messages not to multi tap to my KD (esp larger KDs) but new people joined who didn't see KD page/news. We were preparing for war and tried to find spare gc lying around by hitting inactives. What did they gain by razing? "Oh man, we better teach this small KD a lesson because they hit our inactive for 2m total gc... and look at our size, how dare they!" What fun. I have had very pleasant experiences with large KDs mostly (proactive diplomacy, kind advice, etc), but when something like this happens, it makes the community look bad. Newbies should be allowed to make mistakes so they can learn the multiple layers of nuance the game offers.

[Pillz]

I don't think PK'ing near EoA is mercy as all that science/wpa goes away. Essentially a 500k plunder (we were in fortified, so the gains were nominal) on someone who is still inactive was responded with a raze/kill only because they can, "for fun", AND because they have no age objectives in terms of war wins or rankings. That is the bottom line. The intention matters too. Of course the plunders were a mistake. I did not expect my KD to make 4 plunder attacks on someone. I had already sent messages not to multi tap to my KD (esp larger KDs) but new people joined who didn't see KD page/news. We were preparing for war and tried to find spare gc lying around by hitting inactives. What did they gain by razing? "Oh man, we better teach this small KD a lesson because they hit our inactive for 2m total gc... and look at our size, how dare they!" What fun. I have had very pleasant experiences with large KDs mostly (proactive diplomacy, kind advice, etc), but when something like this happens, it makes the community look bad. Newbies should be allowed to make mistakes so they can learn the multiple layers of nuance the game offers.

Cry moar please.