#5 land vs #42 land?

[jmiedema]

Night: No I am not Monarch, Lord Sampuan is. I help out in some leadership capacity though, and was the first "leadership" person to see the logs from 2 of our provinces that were massively stolen from. Normally we wouldn't care a whole lot, but at the time of stealing we were in an agreed war with a same sized opponent, and you guys were in an arranged war with an opponent. Once you hit agreed war you should not be opping others. Many kingdoms respect your war agreed status and won't do anything to you... it is only courteous to respond in kind by not opping out of your agreed war status for advantages.

2 points I would like to make Night:

First, Night, You have been very reasonable in your assessments of this conflict. Thank you. It does indeed seem like parties outside the conflict are more grieved than those in it.

Second, Please ignore everything Bart and Matija are saying, they are just trolling in their own way. Trying to overescalate the situation.. Just ignore..

P.S - I should note that being that you knew you were in the wrong, you should have just taken the razes and we would have backed off, after just sending a message. Instead you guys razed back full force. That doesnt seem like a kingdom that understands they are in the wrong. You understand that simply a back and forth retaliation doesn't send an actual message. You getting hit a bit without retaliation shows that the message was received. I am not sure of any of the correspondence you maybe have had with our monarch though.

[texn]

lot's of text.

I like you Night, i give you the Viking Seal of approval.

[citadela01]

@citadela01,
I really doubt we poked Baka for 40 mil GC. I havent spoken to all my TMs, I got one unaccounted for. But the others did not steal from him. Any chance you can talk to Baka when he wakes up / is around and confirm who it was that stole from him?
About that Lying guy, we took him from 25-3 (dunno to how low, working with what was mentioned earlier) in a run. And apparently Juicey took him for 10 mil a few days prior to that. Fair enough I guess. Coulda messaged us to not show up in the news then? ;p

I dont have the impression you're throwing a fit. You maybe pushed this a bit further than was necessary, but that was up to you guys. We were short about 30 mil for a drake and decided to risk just a slap on the wrist to fund it down a bit. Had a pretty rough war coming with Hippos.
We too had other stuffs to do end of age, but then you guys full on razed us. I understand that, but at some point I offered CF when both sides had ceased hits for like 8 hours or something. Figured we'd both made our point and could move on. Then the same tick I offer a CF you make another wave, which really was not necessary. Meter was like what, 150-120 prior to your wave. Point made I'd say.
Anyway, we're not going to let you go now, sorry, you're going to get to keep knocking on this door.

I'll ask him when hes around.

As far as CF goes, well you must understand we werent gona let you walk away even steven with us, we were gona prolong it to make sure you end up with short end of the stick.
If you didnt retaled after our first wave with razes of your own/fg we might call it a day after one wave, 2 tops, but since you decided to fight we fight.

This may seem stubborn, but you rly wrecked that guy with robs. He ended up with barely enough money to rebuild and we couldnt aid him cause of tb. Also to add salt to the wound you personaly stole another 3m of him day after your 25m run =)

And np about pushing this as long as you feel like, contrary to popular opinion we dont rly feel entitled ... if you wanna drag this for a week and mbe pk small guys we aint gona complain, its your purogative and their fault for dying =)

[NighT]

@Dean21,
I know. They know nobody likes them and they're just trying to get some attention like little children often do.

@jmiedema,
If you've seen the logs, can you do me a favor and check who stole from the province of Baka (allegedly that Mantle guy). I really think we only stole from one of your guys.

About many kingdoms respecting an agreed war ...
I cant post locs here, I know. I think KD tags is fine though, from when we were tagged we got hit by a kingdom with:
a goat theme. (who accepted the CF when I asked for it)
Brave Scientists (who we won from earlier in the age)
War Seekers (who were cool about the hostile when I messaged them)
CineKaj (who made more hits just prior to accepting the CF)
CivilD
Then some random guy from Untold (currently 9.6 mil 'ghetto') did a quad raze (no we didnt hit them)
Then CR hit us (at war with wSk, who tagged them as CR .. I dont know if they actually are)


... This is a day and a half worth of paper. Whilst being tagged "war agreed [kd loc]". Not sure many peeps respect a war tag these days.

About your two points:
1 - Meh. You got to owe up to what you do. We rolled the dice.
2 - I know.
Sorta 3 - I knew we were in the wrong, in that it could potentially earn us a few razes. You guys responded with threats and demands first (which were way ridiculous, how do you expect a kingdom making 1 mil KD-wide to "pay back" 40 mil?), then you proceed to do a full raze wave. We had an outstanding offer to CF you. We didn't hit back till 3 hours after you'd started your wave. I realize that we were 'wrong' in the way that you'd be unhappy and maybe give ****. But I don't take ****. You raze us? Fine, we raze back. You literally had pocketchange stolen. Make a few abducts or trads and move on. Instead you razed us quite a bit.
You made 15 razes before I canceled the offer to CF.
Another 18 razes before we hit back.
Not a single message was received from your KD after the threats a week before.

@texn,
RAWR!

[NighT]

@citadela01,
Oh right, I did forget about that other 3 mil I stole the day after :D (fyi, before you guys sent me any pms)

Also not sure it was really even .. we razed one guy down (not sure at what point we started on that 2nd guy), you razed 9 TMs down. Meter was well over 150 - 120 pts.
Nobody is winning now though. You're losing provs, and probably at some point get backstabbed by some other kingdom who feels a CF is just declared void. We pretty much lost any chance at warring in the future (low wpa, which really needs to be changed in the mechanics). I'm sitting our only mystic, and before he left he sent me this: "Just don't release my wizards!!!" followed by "I'll be so mad the last king or whoever did it. Released me to 6.5 wpa lol"
... technically I did not release his 9.5 raw wpa. He's going to have my head though hahaha. He lost 15K wizards on that first attacker hitting him.

[jmiedema]

About many kingdoms respecting an agreed war ...
I cant post locs here, I know. I think KD tags is fine though, from when we were tagged we got hit by a kingdom with:
a goat theme. (who accepted the CF when I asked for it)
Brave Scientists (who we won from earlier in the age)
War Seekers (who were cool about the hostile when I messaged them)
CineKaj (who made more hits just prior to accepting the CF)
CivilD
Then some random guy from Untold (currently 9.6 mil 'ghetto') did a quad raze (no we didnt hit them)
Then CR hit us (at war with wSk, who tagged them as CR .. I dont know if they actually are)

Seems like several better options to rob than us then. Retaliate against their hits by robbing them.

My hypothesis is that you go around stealing gc from top kingdoms and expect them to just message you telling you to stop (which you do). So you intentionally know what you are doing is wrong, but just not expecting retaliation for it. A nice easy way to pick up some free gc's.

Looks like that backfired on ya.. /shrug.

[NighT]

@jmiedema,
Nope, didnt steal from them. As I mentioned before you guys were the first random sot I took. Literally the first one had 25 mil gc.

Your hypothesis is wrong. Didnt show up in their news. If we're going to piss someone off by stealing GC, at least we have the courtesy to focus on just one to piss off. But as I already mentioned before, standing orders are to never muck about with bigger kingdoms. Not worth the fuss usually (you being the case in point).
So no, those hits were all unprovoked hits into an agreed war.

[NighT]

Just to be clear here, not complaining. It's part of the game for the 'lower' tier warring kingdoms. Just pointing out a fact, that war tags are seldom respected.

[LoRD_SaMPuaN]

Just to be clear here, not complaining. It's part of the game for the 'lower' tier warring kingdoms. Just pointing out a fact, that war tags are seldom respected.

quoted just one post, but consider this a reply to all of your posts to clear a few points from fs pov..

- you robbed us multiple times during our preps, which we mostly ignored, i can dig our prov news logs for +100m ive claimed & +40m of that was on a single prov over the last 5 days (at the time of diplo)..
- i made a very simple offer to resolve the issue, pay back the gc on the dried province & keep the rest as it didnt have considerable damage on others..
- you refused to pay back a single dime and demanded +100m gc from us because of our 'continuous hitting' on your provs throughout the age..
- it turns out that we made a grand total of '0' hits on you whole age, and i called you out for your lie..
- you kept up making terrible diplo, bringing nothing to the table other than 'stalling' and 'destruction' promises or threats..
- i leave the option to payback gc on our single prov on the table until we start razing, and remind you that it will no longer be valid after we start hitting..
- you were pretty sure that 'top' kds dont have time to deal with you as you have claimed during diplo multiple times, so you thought you will just walk away from this too despite knowing what you did was wrong..

im pretty sure we were extremely reasonable during this diplo process, but you werent open to anything other than walking away with the damage you had done - it was simply not an option from our perspective.. its respectable of you to carry this into war and fight your battle though, so i must give you that..

[duckels]

- you kept up making terrible diplo, bringing nothing to the table other than 'stalling' and 'destruction' promises or threats..

Sums up NighT pretty nicely ;)

[citadela01]

Sums up NighT pretty nicely ;)

People who get pk'ed should stay in corner !

[duckels]

People who get pk'ed should stay in corner !

Really no come back i can make to that....

[citadela01]

Really no come back i can make to that....

You only die once ?

[portofelia]

imo what night should do and i would too, keep this war going till eoa and not give the wd...so they can keep that kd busy, but as usual, they maxed metter for nothing...nothing good can come out of it...

[NighT]

@LoRD_SaMPuaN,

The 'diplo' started after we'd stolen. But you're telling me that if we stole something in week 3-4 or whatever, you still logged that? Damn, that's some serious archiving you guys do. Would be surprised if we really showed up in your news all that much though, considering the standing order from day one is to not even intel a 25 player KD.
You made an impossible offer. We were about to war, even if I wanted to there was no way I'd be able to pay back your requested 40 mil gc. Let me be clear though, even if I could, I wouldnt do that.
We get hit all the time, mostly by smaller kingdoms, sometimes by bigger kingdoms. If I'd go and 'demand' that every single nab who hits us more than once repays us in some way or form I'd spend the whole age razing people. You took a risk by getting a fatty province to stock up 25 mil gc (and zero soldiers), you got caught by some ghetto who saw an opportunity to take some of that cash. I'm not sure what rest you would "allow" us to keep (steal 25 mil, demand back 40). I do wonder though, because in your PMs you only mention stealing from this guy, can you please clarify what other guy we stole from and who did it?

You got every right to be upset, however you got no right to make silly demands from us. The fact that other kingdoms would even go there is just appalling. This is how the game works, you win some, you lose some. Generally you only lose to bigger kingdoms, but every once in a while theres one small sneaky bugger that takes some. You can either be all high and mighty about it, or ask to bugger off and say you will make a few retals. You cant seriously be surprised by the fact that I refused to repay the stolen stuff. We were heading into war, we had perhaps 200K gc on us kingdom wide. Instead you went in full assault telling me to, and I quote: "current count is 40m from that prov alone over the past 5 days, and your kd nets around +100m gc over the whole age including small amounts i overlooked.. either you payback ALL 40m on 'lying by your side', or razes will start very shortly.."

You made a silly demand of paying back GC, so I made one in return. Apparently I was wrong about you guys hitting into us. I dont keep logs of the news. But considering pretty much all the big kingdoms have hit into us this age, it wasnt a stretch to think you'd done so too. My bad for that one, if you say you guys havent hit into us this age then I guess that's right.

I made terrible diplo? DUDE, diplo isnt even in my friggin dictionary. Then again, I doubt it's in yours either. Considering you started with a "pay back or raze" pm. I respond really poorly to threats, as I think our war is the case in point.

I dont know what you or your kingdom spends their time on. It does look like burning a lot of GC on a futile war. Kuddos to you? I never thought you to walk away without anything. I merely said that you're welcome to raze us, and that we'd then would retal in kind. Burning more resources for both kingdoms.

You were extremely reasonable during diplo? I'm curious what unreasonable diplo is then.

In my book threatening a gold-starved kingdom with "pay up or razes" is not reasonable. Which is why you got the responses I gave you.
Enjoy the war,

Regards,
NighT