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Thread: Vote Recount (Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan)

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by handofthrawn View Post
    There are around 12 million illegal immigrants in the USA. Conservative estimate is 25% of the 12 million voted. Realistically 50 to 75% of them voted in this election. I guarantee they didn't vote for Trump. So yeah Trump won the popular vote.
    What? The numbers I am seeing is a 3 million claim. You know where this claim stems from? A tweet. No one knows where this guy even got his numbers. Basically, it's not to be believed. Twitter and facebook are not good news sources. Pretty dang silly to think so many voted without detection and it is a claim that has been used over and over again and has shown very little validity.
    Accoding to Trump the Mexican people love him...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swirvin'Birds View Post
    What? The numbers I am seeing is a 3 million claim. You know where this claim stems from? A tweet. No one knows where this guy even got his numbers. Basically, it's not to be believed. Twitter and facebook are not good news sources. Pretty dang silly to think so many voted without detection and it is a claim that has been used over and over again and has shown very little validity.
    Accoding to Trump the Mexican people love him...
    Many counties and states do not require any form of ID. They just let you vote without any requirements. Secondly it's pretty silly to think illegals wouldn't vote against a man whose whole platform was deporting them and building a wall. So what's more believeable when you know those two facts. Voting or not voting. As for validation from who? Our corrupt government or the corrupt media?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    The problem is the average voice in rural stated have more power than an average voice in larger states.

    Either fix it by recalculating how many electoral votes each state gets or abolish it all together because both of those options are better than the current system. The state in which you vote in should have no impact in how powerful your vote is
    The extremely rural states like Wyoming have a minimum number of electors mandated by the constitution because if they were held to the same standard as California they would have zero electoral votes. There is no way to make the system completely fair in a country where the largest state has 65 times the population of the smallest.

    The USA has never been a democracy. True democracy doesn't work. Otherwise we would just text vote our opinions to the government for everything.

    The electoral college will, most likely, not change in our lifetime. 2/3 of the states would have to approve a change to the constitution. All of the lower population states will say no, because they will lose some major influence at the national level.
    Last edited by brandonc204; 04-12-2016 at 20:59.

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    Quote Originally Posted by handofthrawn View Post
    Many counties and states do not require any form of ID. They just let you vote without any requirements. Secondly it's pretty silly to think illegals wouldn't vote against a man whose whole platform was deporting them and building a wall. So what's more believeable when you know those two facts. Voting or not voting. As for validation from who? Our corrupt government or the corrupt media?
    The ONLY thing voter ID effects is in-person voting. Thats it. There never been much in the way of in-person voter fraud ever. Study after study shows this to be the case.
    What voter ID does do is it requires you to purchase a government ID. I thought you republicans were against big brother intrusions?
    I was just repeating what our president elect claimed... Lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swirvin'Birds View Post
    The ONLY thing voter ID effects is in-person voting. Thats it. There never been much in the way of in-person voter fraud ever. Study after study shows this to be the case.
    What voter ID does do is it requires you to purchase a government ID. I thought you republicans were against big brother intrusions?
    I was just repeating what our president elect claimed... Lol.
    Completely false a government id card is free. Also yes in person is when you use a id card. Why couldn't I just walk in and vote if I was a illegal immigrant? What would stop me? I live a rural area and illegals try and vote every year but you have to show your driver's license plus register ahead of time. So they get turned away every time. But they steal the jobs from locals, working mainly for big corporate farms who are squeezing the little farmers out. Why do you think no president has touched immigration. They would hate for the big corporations to lose their slave labor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by handofthrawn View Post
    Completely false a government id card is free. Also yes in person is when you use a id card. Why couldn't I just walk in and vote if I was a illegal immigrant? What would stop me? I live a rural area and illegals try and vote every year but you have to show your driver's license plus register ahead of time. So they get turned away every time. But they steal the jobs from locals, working mainly for big corporate farms who are squeezing the little farmers out. Why do you think no president has touched immigration. They would hate for the big corporations to lose their slave labor.
    As someone who has worked for several large corporations in the USA, they don't mess around. If you don't have a driver's license and social security card to show you are a legal resident, they won't let you work for them. The Social Security office is very strict about residency status. You must be citizen, legal resident with a visa, or have a work permit from ICE to get a social security card.

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    Quote Originally Posted by handofthrawn View Post
    Completely false a government id card is free. Also yes in person is when you use a id card. Why couldn't I just walk in and vote if I was a illegal immigrant? What would stop me? I live a rural area and illegals try and vote every year but you have to show your driver's license plus register ahead of time. So they get turned away every time. But they steal the jobs from locals, working mainly for big corporate farms who are squeezing the little farmers out. Why do you think no president has touched immigration. They would hate for the big corporations to lose their slave labor.
    Not really. A study done on this showed a average cost in documentation and time to be about $75-$100 and it costs 10's of millions per state to provide these ID's. 100's of millions nationally. All of this for a scare tactic that has been used and beaten to death over and over again and has never showed much merit.
    Umm.. The little farmer is the guy hiring the illegals. Giant corporations just get their cheap labor in different countries. Most illegals work in farming and construction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brandonc204 View Post
    The extremely rural states like Wyoming have a minimum number of electors mandated by the constitution because if they were held to the same standard as California they would have zero electoral votes. There is no way to make the system completely fair in a country where the largest state has 65 times the population of the smallest.

    The USA has never been a democracy. True democracy doesn't work. Otherwise we would just text vote our opinions to the government for everything.

    The electoral college will, most likely, not change in our lifetime. 2/3 of the states would have to approve a change to the constitution. All of the lower population states will say no, because they will lose some major influence at the national level.
    Agree. But states can split their electoral votes. In Maine the popular vote winner gets 2 votes and each district gets 1 vote for their popular vote winner for their 4 total votes.
    Seems more of a representitive government to me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swirvin'Birds View Post
    Agree. But states can split their electoral votes. In Maine the popular vote winner gets 2 votes and each district gets 1 vote for their popular vote winner for their 4 total votes.
    Seems more of a representitive government to me...
    Yes, this would be nice to see. Completely disastrous for some of the big states though :D Could you imagine New York City not dominating all the electoral votes from New York. They would lose their damn minds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brandonc204 View Post
    Yes, this would be nice to see. Completely disastrous for some of the big states though :D Could you imagine New York City not dominating all the electoral votes from New York. They would lose their damn minds.
    Either way it forces the parties to campaign in areas they normally wouldn't as it puts more in play. You may get more republican votes in the cities but at the same time it puts many more democratic votes in red states in play as well. Many of these red states had 40%+ democrat vote that all went to republicans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by handofthrawn View Post
    There are around 12 million illegal immigrants in the USA. Conservative estimate is 25% of the 12 million voted. Realistically 50 to 75% of them voted in this election. I guarantee they didn't vote for Trump. So yeah Trump won the popular vote.
    100% of those numbers are made up.

    Quote Originally Posted by brandonc204 View Post
    The extremely rural states like Wyoming have a minimum number of electors mandated by the constitution because if they were held to the same standard as California they would have zero electoral votes. There is no way to make the system completely fair in a country where the largest state has 65 times the population of the smallest.
    Give Wyoming 1 electoral vote. Give California 65. See, fair. Or just abolish the whole thing and everyone's vote counts as 1 vote. Also fair.

    The rest of what you've said I didn't even make a comment about other than abolishing the electoral college being a pipe dream, which I already know.

    Quote Originally Posted by handofthrawn View Post
    Completely false a government id card is free.
    As someone that didn't get their licence until they were 25, I can assure you state IDs are not free.

    You just asked why you couldn't vote as an illegal and then explained how illegals try to vote every year and get turned away lol

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by handofthrawn View Post
    There are around 12 million illegal immigrants in the USA. Conservative estimate is 25% of the 12 million voted. Realistically 50 to 75% of them voted in this election. I guarantee they didn't vote for Trump. So yeah Trump won the popular vote.
    Show me the numbers please, I am sure you wouldnt just talk out of your arse right you have actual numbers that back up your claims right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    Give Wyoming 1 electoral vote. Give California 65. See, fair. Or just abolish the whole thing and everyone's vote counts as 1 vote. Also fair.

    The rest of what you've said I didn't even make a comment about other than abolishing the electoral college being a pipe dream, which I already know.
    I agree with the spirit of what you think, but I don't think it would be fair. The small states would ultimately submit to the will of the larger ones more than they do so now..

    The electoral college was meant to be a compromise based on how the legislative branch functions. The House is based on population. The senate is 2 senators per state. The electoral college is sort of an "average" of the two.

    At least under our current system the entirety of rural america can pull together and represent the same amount of political power as a larger state in the general election.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Korp View Post
    Show me the numbers please, I am sure you wouldnt just talk out of your arse right you have actual numbers that back up your claims right?
    https://www.census.gov/data/tables/2.../cps-2013.html

    Also, farmers are not the only ones that hire illegal immigrants...the Turkey plant right across the street from us recently had an ICE raid and had about 50 employees carted away. There was a plant in Illinois that got in trouble for the same thing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by handofthrawn View Post
    ...plus register ahead of time.
    That's about the only fact you've gotten right.

    You need to register. And registration requires citizenship. As a non-US citizen, I can't just walk into a government office in the US and get myself on the voters list. Doesn't work that way. In order for me to vote in an election, I'd actually need to impersonate a specific registered voter. Odds are decent that the individual I'm impersonating either will have voted already, or will show up afterwards. Either way, that creates an irregularity that would get noticed. If any substantial number of people were engaging in such impersonations, the *majority* of them would appear to have 'voted twice', and that would create a visible trend of irregularities.

    It doesn't happen. There might be a handful of such fraudulent votes in any given election, but there's no evidence to suggest any widespread fraud - and if there were widespread fraud of such a nature, there *would* be evidence of it.

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